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Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Tue, 23 Jan 2024 5:07 pm
by Lisafuller
Strong Eagle wrote: ↑Tue, 23 Jan 2024 2:59 am
So long as the thugocracy that is China continues to clamp down on Hong Kong, you'll continue to see a migration of the executive level of companies into Singapore. No company wants to see their executive level databases hacked by the government or simply cutoff from all access whenever the thugs in charge deem it necessary. Back office functions will continue to move out to KL, Manila, and India because it's cheaper. Cloud computing power will continue to be concentrated in Singapore as multiple companies build out giant data centers and tons of fiber is available in and out of Singapore.
What do you mean by tons of fiber?
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Tue, 23 Jan 2024 5:09 pm
by Lisafuller
malcontent wrote: ↑Mon, 22 Jan 2024 7:22 pm
Lisafuller wrote: ↑Mon, 22 Jan 2024 3:58 pm
malcontent wrote: ↑Mon, 22 Jan 2024 2:46 pm
Multinational companies (my present employer included) include Singapore as part of their global tax strategy. To do this, they must keep a certain number of employees, including key decision makers, in Singapore - - otherwise tax authorities may determine that your company presence is insubstantial and disqualify the revenue recognized here (with major tax implications).
With that in mind it seems like most have to take an all or nothing approach. Either stay or don't.
We moved a lot of our clerical accounting and IT functions to India about 15 years ago. However, that hasn’t resulted in fewer employees here, just the job function being performed here has evolved to become more value added now — and since we are growing, we have only seen our headcount increase.
I've also known a number of MNCs to downsize dramatically, but not necessarily for reasons related to tax/cutting costs, rather for other strategic reasons.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 3:13 am
by Strong Eagle
Lisafuller wrote: ↑Tue, 23 Jan 2024 5:07 pm
Strong Eagle wrote: ↑Tue, 23 Jan 2024 2:59 am
So long as the thugocracy that is China continues to clamp down on Hong Kong, you'll continue to see a migration of the executive level of companies into Singapore. No company wants to see their executive level databases hacked by the government or simply cutoff from all access whenever the thugs in charge deem it necessary. Back office functions will continue to move out to KL, Manila, and India because it's cheaper. Cloud computing power will continue to be concentrated in Singapore as multiple companies build out giant data centers and tons of fiber is available in and out of Singapore.
What do you mean by tons of fiber?
There are many different fiber optic communications cables that terminate in Singapore. Singapore has excellent and redundant high speed connectivity to virtually all over the world. It makes Singapore a desirable place for server consolidation projects and for cloud computing in Asia. And unlike keeping your servers in China (and now Hong Kong), you don't need to worry about the thugocracy stealing your data or cutting you off completely.
https://www.submarinecablemap.com/country/singapore
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 1:04 pm
by JWNYsg
Other than money, there are many extremely appealing factors such as infrastructure and safety.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 4:28 pm
by malcontent
JWNYsg wrote: ↑Thu, 25 Jan 2024 1:04 pm
Other than money, there are many extremely appealing factors such as infrastructure and safety.
I’m now spending almost as much time out of Singapore as I am in Singapore… flying out tomorrow. While I know safety is supposed to be a big deal here, I can’t really think of a single time I’ve felt unsafe in other countries I’ve visited post-Covid. Infrastructure wise, internet here is a bit slow, and I’ve been seeing more and more potholes, but at least the MRT hasn’t been breaking down as much (I am mostly kidding, it’s actually very good here, I admit).
But I really think the most compelling aspect of Singapore for both companies and high net worth individuals is the tax savings. Especially where the tax savings is so substantial it can easily overcome the higher cost of living. I think this especially applicable to individuals making around 7 figures annually or with an 8 figure net worth, where they would have gotten soaked (tax-wise) in their home country. Any other benefits would just be cherries on top, not the dessert. Just my opinion.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 8:05 pm
by Wd40
The bank I work for is trying to outsource jobs to Manila. They have a huge development centre there. But guess what, the guy who is the head of that delivery centre, sits in Singapore. So there in lies the key. The top head honchos want to be stationed in Singapore. So Singapore will always have it's appeal for the really top guys. Everyone else moves out to low cost locations.
So it is upto you, who you are. I have been surviving here since 2009. The bank which I first joined in Singapore, Credit Suisse is a total mess. My entire team got culled and right now I am the one and only EP holder remaining from my entire department, who is still in Singapore. Everyone else quit Singapore or is a PR/citizen now. I am like the rarest of rare 15 years work pass holder. It is not that I am super skilled or something, I am just extremely lucky and found a great employer who does not hire and fire at whim and has a good work culture. Find yourself such an employer and then stick on to it forever.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:03 pm
by malcontent
Wd40 wrote: ↑Thu, 25 Jan 2024 8:05 pm
The bank I work for is trying to outsource jobs to Manila. They have a huge development centre there. But guess what, the guy who is the head of that delivery centre, sits in Singapore. So there in lies the key. The top head honchos want to be stationed in Singapore. So Singapore will always have it's appeal for the really top guys. Everyone else moves out to low cost locations.
So it is upto you, who you are. I have been surviving here since 2009. The bank which I first joined in Singapore, Credit Suisse is a total mess. My entire team got culled and right now I am the one and only EP holder remaining from my entire department, who is still in Singapore. Everyone else quit Singapore or is a PR/citizen now. I am like the rarest of rare 15 years work pass holder. It is not that I am super skilled or something, I am just extremely lucky and found a great employer who does not hire and fire at whim and has a good work culture. Find yourself such an employer and then stick on to it forever.
My current EP is good thru Aug, 2025… that will put me into year 29 on an EP… same employer for the whole time. I was just thinking over the weekend, if I ever stop working for my employer, I will honestly feel kinda sad.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 12:18 am
by Wd40
malcontent wrote: ↑Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:03 pm
Wd40 wrote: ↑Thu, 25 Jan 2024 8:05 pm
The bank I work for is trying to outsource jobs to Manila. They have a huge development centre there. But guess what, the guy who is the head of that delivery centre, sits in Singapore. So there in lies the key. The top head honchos want to be stationed in Singapore. So Singapore will always have it's appeal for the really top guys. Everyone else moves out to low cost locations.
So it is upto you, who you are. I have been surviving here since 2009. The bank which I first joined in Singapore, Credit Suisse is a total mess. My entire team got culled and right now I am the one and only EP holder remaining from my entire department, who is still in Singapore. Everyone else quit Singapore or is a PR/citizen now. I am like the rarest of rare 15 years work pass holder. It is not that I am super skilled or something, I am just extremely lucky and found a great employer who does not hire and fire at whim and has a good work culture. Find yourself such an employer and then stick on to it forever.
My current EP is good thru Aug, 2025… that will put me into year 29 on an EP… same employer for the whole time. I was just thinking over the weekend, if I ever stop working for my employer, I will honestly feel kinda sad.
Wow! I would imagine you have spent more time here on work pass than most people on PR. I would imagine most PRs would either convert to citizenship or give up their PR by the 29 year mark.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 12:45 am
by smoulder
Wd40 wrote: ↑Thu, 25 Jan 2024 8:05 pm
The bank I work for is trying to outsource jobs to Manila. They have a huge development centre there. But guess what, the guy who is the head of that delivery centre, sits in Singapore. So there in lies the key. The top head honchos want to be stationed in Singapore. So Singapore will always have it's appeal for the really top guys. Everyone else moves out to low cost locations.
So it is upto you, who you are. I have been surviving here since 2009. The bank which I first joined in Singapore, Credit Suisse is a total mess. My entire team got culled and right now I am the one and only EP holder remaining from my entire department, who is still in Singapore. Everyone else quit Singapore or is a PR/citizen now. I am like the rarest of rare 15 years work pass holder. It is not that I am super skilled or something, I am just extremely lucky and
found a great employer who does not hire and fire at whim and has a good work culture. Find yourself such an employer and then stick on to it forever.
Nice to see you are not stressing out - in some of your posts at least you come across as being a bit frustrated.
But anyway, the highlighted part - I think regardless whether you are on EP, PR or a citizen... I think this is like hitting the jackpot. I can see many people in my current bank who have stayed put for decades. Some of them are here for 3 to 4 decades and retire here! There are times when I consider a job change, for nothing other than an bigger increment than a promotion or the yearly increase... And then I think that I'd rather be in a familiar environment, more stable and where I can be in for the long haul rather than short term gain.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 9:05 am
by Wd40
smoulder wrote: ↑Fri, 26 Jan 2024 12:45 am
Nice to see you are not stressing out - in some of your posts at least you come across as being a bit frustrated.
But anyway, the highlighted part - I think regardless
Thanks. Actually I am a born stressor, lol. If I cannot even survive in my current company then the problem is with me, not the company, lol.
I guess my frustration was about not getting PR and then being here in a state of limbo, without any house or car. These material possessions make you feel you belong.
I know a few Indian families here who left Singapore and they were doing very well here, many cases both husband and wife working and their only reason wad that they cannot settle here. So their logic is if they are not going ever get settled here(due to lack of PR) then what is the point in staying? They might as well go back now and get into the process of getting settled. So some people do feel this way. I am bit okay with the nomad/gypsy kind of life, but I do feel frustrated sometimes.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 10:27 am
by Max Headroom
TBH, I doubt that tax savings is the main reason for these HNW types to put down roots in Singapore. I believe that once you have that kind of money, it ceases to be numero uno on your insomnia list.
Mostly, that category worries over their physical health and general safety, i.e. requiring medical care and/or becoming victim of a personal crime. If those are your pet fears, clearly, Singapore is the place to be.
That said, the fact that Singapore has pretty much all its other ducks lined up also helps of course.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 12:40 pm
by midlet2013
Max Headroom wrote: ↑Fri, 26 Jan 2024 10:27 am
TBH, I doubt that tax savings is the main reason for these HNW types to put down roots in Singapore. I believe that once you have that kind of money, it ceases to be numero uno on your insomnia list.
Mostly, that category worries over their physical health and general safety, i.e. requiring medical care and/or becoming victim of a personal crime. If those are your pet fears, clearly, Singapore is the place to be.
That said, the fact that Singapore has pretty much all its other ducks lined up also helps of course.
I do think tax and zero capital gain tax are big incentives. However, as ur net worth goes up, it has diminishing returns. Other factors come in play. I do think Singapore has many attractive points.
Good location, Safety, Diversity, English language, Good medical care, etc.
However, I also believe that to really enjoy Singapore, one needs a decent amount of money.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 2:12 pm
by Wd40
Singapore is actually such a boring place, it is good for expat postings for a short while or if you are an immigrant from a poor Asian country, with no other choice. But anybody else who has ability to live in the US or Europe would be seriously bored living in Singapore. I would imagine the only reason they would continue to live here is because they have an Asian spouse.
I am dieing to get out of here and into Europe, but nobody gives me a job at this age, lol.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 3:00 pm
by malcontent
Wd40 wrote: ↑Fri, 26 Jan 2024 2:12 pm
Singapore is actually such a boring place, it is good for expat postings for a short while or if you are an immigrant from a poor Asian country, with no other choice. But anybody else who has ability to live in the US or Europe would be seriously bored living in Singapore. I would imagine the only reason they would continue to live here is because they have an Asian spouse.
I am dieing to get out of here and into Europe, but nobody gives me a job at this age, lol.
Keep trying. Age discrimination is against the law in the U.S., even for home mortgages - they absolutely cannot use your age against you. I was surprised to learn this.
I think Malta has a few different options with varying time requirements and price tags, but you end up with a full blown EU passport in the end, which can set up your kids for their future as well.
Re: Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?
Posted: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 4:08 pm
by NYY1
Sometimes it sounds like people need confirmation from others to keep supporting what they think. I always laugh when I hear something is so bad, yet people are still there (not just here, anywhere).
If people don't like something, that is fine. However, if so, then I'd suggest people learn to grow a pair of balls and book a flight out of Changi. And this is not a slap in the face, it's actually constructive advice.