Singapore Expats

igwt wrote:Hi kraikk:

You mentioned "A lawyer is definitely useful" under the section "If all has failed". I wonder what explicitly could a lawyer do in this matter? Do you think there is room for negotiation with Mindef by a lawyer?

Has anyone here used a lawyer before and care to share your experience?

Thanks.

I have consulted several lawyers before and I can tell you all of them said the same thing: They have little or no experience in this area and that the government holds all the cards. In fact someone told me that Mindef would prefer to deal with the family whose son did not serve than deal with the family's lawyer.

Lawyers know that there is no money to be made in this area of law. There is usually one winner - Mindef. Think about it: When you can only renounce your citizenship at 21 but have to serve at 18, you would have to break the law (by not serving NS) before you even have a chance to renounce..

Holyguacamole wrote:
Lawyers know that there is no money to be made in this area of law. There is usually one winner - Mindef. Think about it: When you can only renounce your citizenship at 21 but have to serve at 18, you would have to break the law (by not serving NS) before you even have a chance to renounce..

It is a strange state of affairs that I am personally uncomfortable with: that one can be required to (theoretically) fight and die for this country at 18, but not vote, renounce citizenship, trade shares, watch Bruno, and generally be considered an adult. Responsibilities without rights.

kraikk,

I've only really one thing to say. Singapore is a Sovereign State who has the right to determine it's own Immigration, Citizenship and National Service policies. Nobody has held a gun to anybody to make them take up Permanent Residence yet. Or at least not to my knowledge. Therefore, anybody who is contemplating taking up PR is required to do their due diligence BEFORE doing so. This also goes for Citizens who whisk their male offspring out of the country in the misguided belief that they are doing something good for their sons. It is up to them to do their due diligence before doing so. Otherwise, their sons only have the parents to blame for the straits the are in.

Remember, taking up PR is a privilege that does have strings attached and if one cannot accept those strings & codicils one shouldn't take it up in the first place.

However, this is not directed at you personally, but for all the readers who come here looking for answers. We can give them anecdotal evidence and even some first hand evidence but at the end of the day it's up to the reader to do the research BEFORE they act, not after.

sms

I am currently a sec 2 student enrolled in the IP programme in ACS(I). I am a PR and have no intentions of serving NS. Will I still be able to renounce my PR status after I have completed my IB examinations in November 2013?

If you are past the age of 13 you will not be able to renounce while you are still here in Singapore. Additionally, if you leave the country you can forget ever returning to Singapore and getting either PR or even an Employment Pass. See the other thread currently running or do a search of these various threads.

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic64340.html

What is the oldest age for NS enlistment? 26 27? Anyone?

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Hi All,

Thanks for the good efforts in making this sticky thread.

Dual citizens

The only way a male Singaporean citizen can legally avoid NS is if he
1) has another citizenship before the age of 11
2) informs Mindef of his intention to renounce Singaporean citizenship and applies for the necessary exit permits from the age of 13 and obtains deferment at 18
3) does not use or benefit from Singaporean citizenship after 11
4) finally renounces Singaporean citizenship at 21

Myself - Dual Citizenship
Missus - Singapore, going to apply for OZ Citizenship

Myself and my missus are currently working in OZ for a short period, will be going back Singapore for good in 2-3 years time.

We are currently trying for a baby & wondering which country to give birth would be a better option. For some reasons, i would prefer my boy not to serve NS. If it is a girl, no big issues.

My thoughts
1.) If my missus will to give birth in Singapore, child will automatically have a Singapore passport and birthcert. However, hild should have NO issue to apply for an OZ passport as well, since i am holding an OZ passport.
2.) If my missus will to give birth in OZ, since both of us are Singapore, child will still be granted Singapore nationality automatically based on the Singapore law, please correct me if i am wrong.
3.) Regardless born in which country, child still have to leave Singapore by age 11/13 in order to avoid NS.


But if child is borne in OZ, when we go back to Singapore, can child be PR all the way to 11/13 instead of applying for Singapore passport and NRIC?

Another good thing about giving birth in OZ is the reasonable healthcare.

Any much replies are much appreciated.

Cheers
Nit

nitro wrote: 2.) If my missus will to give birth in OZ, since both of us are Singapore, child will still be granted Singapore nationality automatically based on the Singapore law, please correct me if i am wrong.

Incorrect. It is not automatic. If both of you are out of the country, you do not have to give the child Singapore Citizenship. However, this could be both good and bad as you do not know what the future holds.

Citizenship for Overseas-born Children

Wondering if your child who is born overseas is eligible for Singapore Citizenship by descent? Yes, he is. Here’s what you’d need to do:
Register your child for citizenship within one year of his or her birth at the nearest Singapore Overseas Mission or ICA in Singapore

Show proof that you are the child’s legal parents

If you register your child for citizenship after his first year, write a letter of explanation for the late submission, so your application can be considered.

3.) Regardless born in which country, child still have to leave Singapore by age 11/13 in order to avoid NS.

Incorrect. It would depend on the visa the child is on. If the child is on a LTVP the no there is not a liability. Same thing if the child is on a student visa.

But if child is borne in OZ, when we go back to Singapore, can child be PR all the way to 11/13 instead of applying for Singapore passport and NRIC?

That is very doubtful as I don't think the government here would give the child PR in the first place as both parents are Singaporean. Additionally, I doubt seriously they would even give him an LTVP or student pass either as the will be aware of what you are trying to do. Seriously, you don't think the government is THAT stupid do you? Especially when it come to males and NS.

Another good thing about giving birth in OZ is the reasonable healthcare.

Any much replies are much appreciated.

Cheers
Nit

My take? You are gonna get burned. Well, not you, but you are gonna burn a good portion of your son's future. I hope, you don't continue with this line of thinking as the boy may well grow up hating you. You do realize that if you pull something like that, your son will never be allowed to have PR or for that matter, even work here. They have a very long memory.

sms

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sundaymorningstaple wrote:
My take? You are gonna get burned. Well, not you, but you are gonna burn a good portion of your son's future. I hope, you don't continue with this line of thinking as the boy may well grow up hating you. You do realize that if you pull something like that, your son will never be allowed to have PR or for that matter, even work here. They have a very long memory.

sms

Thnx for this advice.

Mad Scientist wrote: Good Luck with your endevour!!

Thnx for sharing mate! You have been awesome.

Hi all,

I am in a similar situation where I was born in Singapore left Singapore at age 4. Took up Oz citizenship under my mother at age 6 and never contacted Singapore on anything after this. I wasn't even aware I was considered a citizen.

So although I travelled to Singapore for holidays when I was young on my Australian passport I never received any notice to serve, never received a Singapore passport or IC.

At the age of 27 I want to go back for a holiday again to visit my aging aunts and uncles who raised me. I took the correct route by renouncing to immigration, they referred me on to manpower and I have been told I am considered a NS defaulter and please return to Singapore to sort the issue.

I am happy to do so but I am
1. Nervous that my life here and career will be disrupted if they hold me there, make me do NS, jail me, etc
2. Considering whether I should ever go back there if it means my life as an Australian, all I know, will be effected.

If I had to serve NS I would do so then immediately renounce because I do not wish to be a Singaporean Citizen nor have I ever.

I want to know if anyone in my situation has ever had a successful appeal and what is my likelihood?

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So basically no matter what I will have to serve NS if I go back even if I want to renounce. There is no way I would be exempt from National service in any circumstance?