Singapore Expats

Emergency123 wrote:I'm in the market for a < 5 year old car preferably a manual and have been looking through two of the most popular used car websites.However,

1. Car prices ( here ) do not seem to depreciate as much as I thought .

2. Most of the listed cars ( even supposedly driver's cars ) are automatics !

Does it make sense to approach new car dealers like http://www.pml-bmw.com.sg/asia_dl/sg_en/ and see if they have used cars for sale or is a private seller a better option ? I don't want to end up with a lemon.

You sure you want a manual?

Don't get me wrong. I love my ride to be manual, but driving in a congested city on a manual can make you cry. Thank God my company car was an automatic. I leave manual driving for holidays when I go home.

Having said that, sorry I do not have input for second hand cars. zzm9980 may have some tips, because that's how he got his second hand car here.

Emergency123 wrote:1. Car prices ( here ) do not seem to depreciate as much as I thought .

Probably because a fair chunk of the cost is COE which is straight line depreciation, as opposed to car value which traditionally follows an accelerated depreciation path?

ARF, PARF, OMV etc, I got the impression the intricacies around that merit a week long training course.

Honestly Manual vs Auto is the least of your problems.

the lynx wrote:Don't get me wrong. I love my ride to be manual, but driving in a congested city on a manual can make you cry.

Sorry, but this only means you can not drive manual. Manual gives you much better control of anything engine related than any automatic. If you know how to drive manual and have experience in it than everything is for you automatic but you have higher predictability and flexibility of what you do. I drive manuals for 30 years at this point and automatics 3 years only and I truly dislike the later.

I've owned both and have been driving both for 50 years. I drive a manual Kia Rio now. I've owned many of each (usually having 2 cars at a time until the last 20 years. (I used to race class D sports cars in the 70's - 72 Triumph Spitfire) If you love to drive you will always prefer the manual as you become one with the car. The last pair I owned here in Singapore was a automatic old Cortina and a MK1-Mini Cooper (4-speed) which I sold about 3 months after the COE system started back in '91.

Sadly, one of the old arguments for Manual transmissions no longer hold true and that's better fuel consumption. The new automatic transmissions are giving much better fuel economy over a manual, but aren't as much fun to drive. And city driving with a manual? Way fun. Keeps me a teenager! Stop light Grand Prix!

Now, if only I had a decent exhaust system like I had on the Mini-Cooper (2" split manifold headers and pipes all the way out with glass pack only.)

A manual can get pretty tiresome with a heavy clutch. Commuted into London for a while in a Land Rover Defender, pretty hard on the left leg.

Autos certainly have come a long way. I would have never thought that I would consider an auto 4WD (not for Sg) but having read quite a bit on the subject it does seem auto could be the way to go.

A manual in Sg, no problem. By international standards Sg is not congested. Rented a manual Fiesta recently. It was great fun. Engine shutting down at lights took a little while to get used to though.

A mechanic friend once advised never to buy a manual second hand. He reckoned that most people change so badly that you could be setting yourself up for clutch problems in the future.

No specific tips Lynx, sorry. I just shopped around on SGCarMart.

I did have a second hand Honda Fit RS (a SPORTY Honda Fit, ha) that was manual. Every car I've owned since I was 19 has been manual. While I don't mind congested traffic at all with a manual, i did hate the carparks here with very steep spiral ramps. Especially when it is stop and go traffic up them (Looking at you Bugis+ !!). That will test any manual driver's patience.

No idea how is it with BMWs and such but if you just look at the market from low-middle price range perspective it is hardly possible to find a manual car to ones likings. Simply there are too few manuals around. I also started looking for a manual car at first and very soon realized I should better focus on size, millage, how to determine the overall condition of the car, price etc.

Emergency123 wrote:

PNGMK wrote:Honestly Manual vs Auto is the least of your problems.

and why is this ?

I don't like the second hand car market here at all. There's a problem in Singapore that is not being addressed and that is some car owners just don't bother at all with maintenance; and who can blame them. If the maintenance doesn't come with the car package and they're only keeping it for a few years and the second hand dealers don't care about log books (and they don't and the log books are never stamped anyways) then why bother paying an arm and a leg for regular service (esp with the German brands?). Add on the fact that a LOT of cars are exported at around the 5 year mark on then even more reason not to do regular maintenance.

That's why; even thought it's bloody expensive I tend to buy new here.

PNGMK wrote:

Emergency123 wrote:

PNGMK wrote:Honestly Manual vs Auto is the least of your problems.

and why is this ?

I don't like the second hand car market here at all. There's a problem in Singapore that is not being addressed and that is some car owners just don't bother at all with maintenance; and who can blame them. If the maintenance doesn't come with the car package and they're only keeping it for a few years and the second hand dealers don't care about log books (and they don't and the log books are never stamped anyways) then why bother paying an arm and a leg for regular service (esp with the German brands?). Add on the fact that a LOT of cars are exported at around the 5 year mark on then even more reason not to do regular maintenance.

That's why; even thought it's bloody expensive I tend to buy new here.

Things like not doing routine oil changes won't manifest themselves as much here either, as the temperature is warm all year round.

When I sold my car I was shocked the dealer didn't care about the maintenance records I kept or anything else. But it is exactly what PNGMK said.

zzm9980 wrote:

PNGMK wrote:

Emergency123 wrote: and why is this ?

I don't like the second hand car market here at all. There's a problem in Singapore that is not being addressed and that is some car owners just don't bother at all with maintenance; and who can blame them. If the maintenance doesn't come with the car package and they're only keeping it for a few years and the second hand dealers don't care about log books (and they don't and the log books are never stamped anyways) then why bother paying an arm and a leg for regular service (esp with the German brands?). Add on the fact that a LOT of cars are exported at around the 5 year mark on then even more reason not to do regular maintenance.

That's why; even thought it's bloody expensive I tend to buy new here.

Things like not doing routine oil changes won't manifest themselves as much here either, as the temperature is warm all year round.

When I sold my car I was shocked the dealer didn't care about the maintenance records I kept or anything else. But it is exactly what PNGMK said.

Admittedly the mileage here is not enough usually to cause problems (my 7 yo car has only done 114000 km). I remember being amazed that the first company I worked for NEVER serviced their little work van. They basically filled it with oil when low, changed tyres and drove it into the ground over 10 years.

Our had a maintenance record but what surprised us most was to discover that almost all the cars go here for a complete repainting every 2-3years. We were looking for it as an obvious sign of the car being involved in an accident but apparently it's often not the case.

x9200 wrote:Our had a maintenance record but what surprised us most was to discover that almost all the cars go here for a complete repainting every 2-3years. We were looking for it as an obvious sign of the car being involved in an accident but apparently it's often not the case.

Perhaps having the maid wash the car every day isn't good for the paint work.

bgd wrote:

x9200 wrote:Our had a maintenance record but what surprised us most was to discover that almost all the cars go here for a complete repainting every 2-3years. We were looking for it as an obvious sign of the car being involved in an accident but apparently it's often not the case.

Perhaps having the maid wash the car every day isn't good for the paint work.

Singapore is the land of door dents.... a 7 yo car like mine that is parked safely in a condo car park is completely covered in them. Every single bloody panel has had some four eyed sinky jam his door into it. That's why the repainting.

^^ This!