Singapore Expats

I have a friend who recently got granted PR on the Professional, Technical Personnel and Skilled Workers scheme. He's under 40 and plans to retire early (FIRE as they call it) in Singapore.

Would it be possible for him to obtain a REP every 5 years even being retired?

If he's under the age of 65, the OFFICIAL working retirement age in Singapore, it won't happen under the PTS scheme. It's possible however under the FT scheme.

sundaymorningstaple wrote: ↑

Mon, 26 Dec 2022 10:24 pm

If he's under the age of 65, the OFFICIAL working retirement age in Singapore, it won't happen under the PTS scheme. It's possible however under the FT scheme.

Do you mean its a 0% chance he'd get a re-entry permit under his PTS scheme PR (if hes not working and under 65)?

If so, guess Financial Independence Retire Early isn't a possibility for anyone except SC in Singapore.

Sounds like it's possible for SC or FTS SPR.

I'm curious though - what if the said PTS SPR quits his corporate job to start a small business (registered one) and is able to show income with CPF contributions?

smoulder wrote: ↑

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 4:18 pm

Sounds like it's possible for SC or FTS SPR.

I'm curious though - what if the said PTS SPR quits his corporate job to start a small business (registered one) and is able to show income with CPF contributions?

He would need to show financial viability (via income tax returns). There has been at least one statement by a govt minister that PR's can retire in Singapore but there was no clarification between FTS or PTS. There rarely is any open differentiation.

This is of relevance:

https://www.mha.gov.sg/mediaroom/parlia ... velopment/

"About 2% (of applicants for REP as retirees) were rejected, largely because they were absent from Singapore for a prolonged period, and furthermore had no family roots here. "

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 4:41 pm

This is of relevance:

https://www.mha.gov.sg/mediaroom/parlia ... velopment/

"About 2% (of applicants for REP as retirees) were rejected, largely because they were absent from Singapore for a prolonged period, and furthermore had no family roots here. "

It would appear that, like the 10 yr REP and the over 55 REP renewal that was a question when I renewed at 57 after being unemployed for 15 months and was told that FT PRs didn't need proof of employment after 55 may have also changed. PNGMK and I had a discussion about that a number of years ago after the fact. The key word in the Parliamentary answer by Ms Sun Xueling I believe is the words 'and furthermore' which tends to mean 'in addition to the prolonged absence factor.

I was told specifically by the officer at ICA that FT's weren't required to be employed after the age of 55. What I wasn't told was that "PR's"" weren't required. So, the assumption would be that it only applied to FT PRs. Maybe it's been changed as well.

I think there are retired PTS PRs here. In the link quoted she mentioned that there were ~54,000 PR's who retired in the last 5 years. That implies to me some PTS PR's who either retired of age or retired of means (i.e. had the wherewithal to retire economically without full time work). Like all retirement visa schemes (looking at you MY with MMH2 and Indonesia with it's new deposit limits) the rules may change and catch one out.

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 6:49 pm

I think there are retired PTS PRs here. In the link quoted she mentioned that there were ~54,000 PR's who retired in the last 5 years. That implies to me some PTS PR's who either retired of age or retired of means (i.e. had the wherewithal to retire economically without full time work). Like all retirement visa schemes (looking at you MY with MMH2 and Indonesia with it's new deposit limits) the rules may change and catch one out.

So I guess my friend probably can obtain a REP even though he's only about 40 and retired under PTS?

hangmann wrote: ↑

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 6:53 pm

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 6:49 pm

I think there are retired PTS PRs here. In the link quoted she mentioned that there were ~54,000 PR's who retired in the last 5 years. That implies to me some PTS PR's who either retired of age or retired of means (i.e. had the wherewithal to retire economically without full time work). Like all retirement visa schemes (looking at you MY with MMH2 and Indonesia with it's new deposit limits) the rules may change and catch one out.

So I guess my friend probably can obtain a REP even though he's only about 40 and retired under PTS?

I don't know the answer but I would think critically about whether there is a difference between a) long-time PR that married an SC or whose next generation has setup camp here (educated and working here), either as PRs (perhaps married to an SC or still potential new SCs) or even better as SCs and b) someone that did not even get one REP renewal while employed. Obviously, there will be shades of gray between these two end points...

The following person never came back so I'm not sure what happened. He/she was 50s, PR for 20+ years, but only got 1 year REP when unemployed. Would the result be different if the "retired" box was checked?

viewtopic.php?t=140051

hangmann wrote: ↑

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 6:53 pm

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 6:49 pm

I think there are retired PTS PRs here. In the link quoted she mentioned that there were ~54,000 PR's who retired in the last 5 years. That implies to me some PTS PR's who either retired of age or retired of means (i.e. had the wherewithal to retire economically without full time work). Like all retirement visa schemes (looking at you MY with MMH2 and Indonesia with it's new deposit limits) the rules may change and catch one out.

So I guess my friend probably can obtain a REP even though he's only about 40 and retired under PTS?

I honestly don't know. If he has sufficient income I see no real reason why he couldn't. It's no different to the wealthy who come in under the GIP PR system except he doing a sleight of hand which may trip him up.

The other thing one can look at is the Age Pyramid in the Population Brief (note, this is Resident Population and not total PR/REP active). For both male and female, the bars are kind of the same from 30 - 54 yrs old. They start dropping from 55 - 64 yrs old and are much narrower 65+.

Of course, many people may have voluntarily returned home as they aged. Looking at the PR Resident Population, PR issued, and SC issued, one can get a rough estimate of the number of PRs that left.

NYY1 - Age is critical in the immigration planning. Older people don't reproduce. I think the skewing is quite recent (last two decades) and that's what we see such a narrowing of the age ranges as well.

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Wed, 28 Dec 2022 1:32 pm

NYY1 - Age is critical in the immigration planning. Older people don't reproduce. I think the skewing is quite recent (last two decades) and that's what we see such a narrowing of the age ranges as well.

Yes, I agree on aging and immigration planning. As I am sure you are aware, the % of PR Issued to those 40+ yrs old is typically in the single digit %, although increasing in recent years (probably as the age of well educated, first time parents increases).

Directionally, the aging pyramid should look like it does (thin at the top) for a couple of reasons. First, if you were a PR and are now 65+, there's a decent chance you either converted to SC if you wanted to be here (SMS excluded) or packed up and went home at some point. Second, even for the 65+ PRs that are retired here, there numbers should be smaller, as to be 65+ today you needed to be 30-40 decades ago. Decades ago, the PR base was much smaller than it is now at ~500k (+/-).

Net-net, I think both of us have said "we don't know" on the actual question that was posed here. I guess I think the broader question is (potentially) a bit more complicated (if not today, possibly in the future).

Man, the whole reason my friend wanted PR is to have some stability and assurance that he can put down roots here and retire without getting kicked out. But it seems like it's not a sure thing he can stay at all if he stops working, thus almost defeating the purpose of getting PR for him.