Singapore Expats

Hi everyone, been lurking around this forum for a while and decided to ask for feedback as I'm planning to apply for PR very soon.

Below are my details
Race, Nationality: Chinese, Indonesian
Gender: Male
Status: Single
Age: 24 y/o
Education: Bachelor of Computer Science at a university in Indonesia
Occupation: Software engineer at a tech start up (< 25 PMET)
Salary: Fixed S$8500 monthly
Length of stay: 2 years 6 months
Length of employment: 2 years 3 months (All in SG)

Additional notes:
1. Have around $17k invested in SSB. Likely won't swing the chances, but idk.
2. My latest EP application took 2 months instead of 3 weeks to get approved. Don't know if this could be a bad omen.

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

If you’ve been lurking here for a while, then you know the answer. You also know that having a tiny SSB investment isn’t going to sway things one iota, it’s cultural affinity that will tip the scales.

malcontent wrote: ↑

Mon, 06 Jan 2025 1:22 pm

If you’ve been lurking here for a while, then you know the answer. You also know that having a tiny SSB investment isn’t going to sway things one iota, it’s cultural affinity that will tip the scales.

I suppose you're right. My main concern is whether to apply now or wait until I hit 3 years here as some people have suggested in other threads, but maybe the difference won't be too significant all things considered. Having my EP approved only after 2 months recently also made me a bit anxious, but it could just be a fluke so I guess I'm overthinking it.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

mate, you're Indo Chinese. You're young and you have a high salary considering your age. Just apply.

If rejected, apply again after 6 months. if you don't get it the first time, you will the 2nd or 3rd time.

Decent chance in my opinion. But if you want a higher chance, work in Big Tech. The reason why your EP took so long to get approved is because you work for a startup. ICA can be quite superficial here, they will go by "brand names" from what I have observed.

mystic_river wrote: ↑

Tue, 07 Jan 2025 9:12 am

mate, you're Indo Chinese. You're young and you have a high salary considering your age. Just apply.

If rejected, apply again after 6 months. if you don't get it the first time, you will the 2nd or 3rd time.

Thanks! I got laid off just before I hit my 2 year mark, so I had wanted to hit that sweet spot between applying ASAP and getting approval the first try, as I can lose my job anytime in today's market. But you're right that my profile is strong already (which I'm grateful for) and that I'll eventually get it. Have to learn that nothing's guaranteed and recognize when the time is right.

Being recommended to wait 6 months after rejection is new for me, though. I've only seen people recommend 1-2 years (for different profiles & backgrounds, ofc). I'll think about it when I get there.

raptor_from_vietnam wrote: ↑

Tue, 07 Jan 2025 10:12 am

Decent chance in my opinion. But if you want a higher chance, work in Big Tech. The reason why your EP took so long to get approved is because you work for a startup. ICA can be quite superficial here, they will go by "brand names" from what I have observed.

Interesting. I've heard from an HR in another tech company that it's easier to get an EP approved with a small startups as they're less likely to have used up their "EP quota" and with the COMPASS framework giving better points for companies with < 25 PMETs.

Having better chances of getting an EP approved is not the same as having shorter processing time, so it's not really contradictory. I just find it interesting to know.

^^^^^^
EP's don't have quotas. Small companies have to abide by the same EP requirements as anyone else. Why do you think small startups would be treated differently?

Strong Eagle wrote: ↑

Wed, 08 Jan 2025 3:35 am

^^^^^^
EP's don't have quotas. Small companies have to abide by the same EP requirements as anyone else. Why do you think small startups would be treated differently?

I'm aware that only S Pass has an explicit quota, hence the quotation marks attached there. From what I know, MOM can still reject EP application for other reasons, even after the candidate passes COMPASS requirements. I've seen several large tech companies who used to hire a lot of foreigners now stop giving out EPs altogether, or would only consider senior engineers to give permits to. So, that led me to believe that there is an unwritten cap of EP holders that employers can employ and they would rather not cross. It could depend on the employer's budget and whether the MOM thinks an employer can sustainably hire X amount of professionals.

> Why do you think small startups would be treated differently?
For one, companies with less than 25 PMETs would automatically get 10 pts for 2 COMPASS criterias. So as long as they're only hiring people with a bachelors degree, its easy to pass the minimum 40 pts that COMPASS requires without having to think about the ethnicity of the candidates and such. Large MNCs would also more likely to have roles that they want to fill with people from their origin country (say, TikTok where some of the teams would have to coordinate with another branch in China), so they would have to provide EPs for those roles first before considering for other openings.

I wouldn't say that they are "treated differently" by the govt, just that current rules and the way companies with different scale works can make some more willing to apply and get their EPs approved than others.

Maybe I should've written "easier to be considered for an EP" rather than "easier to get an EP approved" as it implies what you just said, that some companies get preferential treatment than others. My bad

Well, there's no doubt in my mind that even without quota, MOM has a very good handle on the percentages of EP's versus locals in every company... but it's not a published statistic that I can find anywhere.

But, I think the approach is a bit more subtle than points and such. The larger companies can pretty much do what they want, EP wise, because they employ so many locals. So, when Dell, Singtel, Exxon, HP, BASF, Citibank, or any other multi national asks for an EP, they are probably going to get it because
a) they don't abuse the system
b) they employ lots of people and you don't want to piss them off

I contracted into multiple MNC's in Singapore, within the ITC arena, when I lived in Singapore, and I never once saw signs of EP abuse.

Not so with smaller Singapore companies who try to avoid salary costs by hiring EP's on the cheap... you can guess from where. This is the reason that requirements for all types of passes have been tightened... to force these small companies to pay salaries that will attract locals.

You also have to consider how size skews the stats. I had 2 Singaporeans on staff, and as many as 5 or 6 EP's. At first blush you might say that I'm over quota but for the specialty skills involved, I had no issue in getting those EP's... at well above the required EP salary minimums.

So... if you're a small company but properly meeting or exceeding the salary and experience requirements for your EP, you won't have an issue... because it's all about trying to level the playing field with local's salaries.

I think your chances will be good, Indonesian Chinese, young and male with good career prospects , if rejected dont worry apply again later , I have seen Malaysian Chinese male applied 10times and got it at the 10th attempt!

Hi All

I'd like to know my PR chances for reapplying after race changed to Chinese. Here is my rejected profile:

Husband
Race: Burmese (Change to Chinese during the application is pending)
Nationality: Myanmar
Age: 37
Annual income: 100k
Education: Master Degree in IT (NUS)
Working in SG: since 2011
Pass: EP (since Jan 2024)

Wife:(Main Applicant)
Race: Chinese
Nationality: Myanmar
Age: 34
Annual income: 70k
Education: Bachelor Degree in IT(Myanmar)
Working in SG: since 2015
Pass: S Pass

We have one male child enrolled in N1. We applied PR in Feb 2024 and rejected in Oct 2024.
During my application is pending, I have updated my race to Chinese in both MOM and ICA in Jun 2024.

We have reapplied PR in this month(Jan 2025), husband as main applicant.
Does the changing of race to Chinese can increase approval chances of my reapplication of PR.

Race helps in the CMIO count, but how much cultural affinity do Burmese Chinese have with locals? Is it more like Thai Chinese where they tend to be more Thai than Chinese? I’ve only known one Burmese Chinese, they seemed well integrated, but they came very young.

What languages do you speak and how is your child classified?

The C bucket is obviously larger. At the same time, they know you've just changed your race (although you are certainly allowed to do so, one may ask why / how does someone really identify themselves).

Could go either way.

Good luck and regards.

Thank you for reply @malcontent @NYY1
We are following all Chinese traditions like CNY praying, ancestors praying, etc because my grandparents came from China during second world war. For some reasons at that time, they have to put mixed race (Burmese+Chinese) in their national ID cards.

I speak Burmese, English, Business Japanese and Chinese. My child is born in Singapore and classified as Chinese in ICA. As above mentioned, physical appearance is one way to identify which race are they from.