Singapore Expats

Hi I am planning to relocate to SG next month. I am bringing my laptop with me. But there are lot of pirate softwares installed (Even the OS). Is it illegal to use pirate s/w in SG? If so and if I bring my laptop with pirate s/w, can i use it without connecting to internet (off line)? Please tell me a solution (I can't buy Licensed software at the moment )

Thanks!

Get caught - get expelled, possibly with a jail sentence, and your passport will be done for - never to be allowed back in. We're very big on copyright here. We do random checks of notebooks/PC's here, at airports and also on physical borders.

Don't steal anything - pay for it or use freeware or open source.

YOU CAN buy licenced software by vritue that you are using the internet.

How about you do the right thing and pay for what you use?

Cheers, Mr. P

So where is it legal?

Poit taken.

No problem - glad you see the point....

Stealing software is the same as stealing any physical property.

Do the right thing, and just use the open source options if you cannot afford the commercial software. Many of us worked hard on our own software (and advice) so if you steal it, it's theft.

Happy to help you out with open source software if you like. I like people to be legal.

Cheers, Mr. P

Actually there are many softwares that can be bought CHEAP by looking for the OEM version. Just surf the web and you'll find you only have to pay less than half the retail price. Not all software has OEM version online though.

Pirated software....legal....Somalia maybe

There's no excuse for pirated software anymore ( not that there ever was much of one in the first place)

Get linux ( Ubuntu)

or you can buy a second hand PC ( S$ 100) with XP and if you're really lucky MS office on it. Plenty of large companies have a PC renewal plan which pushes a lot of perfectly good PC's into the resale market. If you're willing to put the effort in you can get a system very cheaply.

Good luck

sierra2469alpha wrote: Stealing software is the same as stealing any physical property.

No it's not. When you steal physical property you deprive the owner of that property. Using unlicensed software is a breach of copyright. This is not theft no matter how much Warner Brothers, Microsoft and any other IP developer will try to make you think it is. Tell me, where and when do people get charged or convicted of theft for using unlicensed software, or copying dvd's or what have you.

I do not agree that people should do it, it is generally a criminal breach of copyright depending on what country you are in, but it ain't theft. I agree that as a developer you may feel like someone is stealing from you, just as an animal rights campaigner feels that it is murder when I step on a cockroach. Feelings aren't laws though.

rattlesnake wrote:

sierra2469alpha wrote: Stealing software is the same as stealing any physical property.

Using unlicensed software is a breach of copyright.

Using software that you do not have a license for is the same as stealing. Don't believe me? See what happens if you get caught with pirated software when traversing Changi Airport.

Plavt wrote:

rattlesnake wrote:

sierra2469alpha wrote: Stealing software is the same as stealing any physical property.

Using unlicensed software is a breach of copyright.

Using software that you do not have a license for is the same as stealing. Don't believe me? See what happens if you get caught with pirated software when traversing Changi Airport.

Read my post again Plavt. You have missed the point. If you are just looking at whether you get in trouble or not why not say, selling pirate software is the same as selling drugs. Just try do both in Singapore.

I agree re use of pirate products but seriously I think most of the population have double standards on this, How may people object to piracy but have copied a CD previously, bought a fake watch, made unauthorised photocopies of a document, copied an old LP onto audio cassette (for those who grew up in the 70's) or have an mp3 on their iPod that they didn't buy. I would suggest at least 80% of the population of most first world countries would have breached a copyright at some stage. Are they all thieves? Are you a thief?

Using pirate software is a breach of copyright. Comparing it to theft is a marketing ploy of big movie studios, software companies and the like to dumb it down for the lay person.. Both are criminal wrongs and both can land you in jail.

rattlesnake wrote:
Read my post again Plavt. You have missed the point.

Instead of perpetually posting your nonsensical rants I suggest you think about what you are saying; what are you doing if you are copying and using something you have no legal right to? In short stealing that is the point being made.

rattlesnake wrote:

sierra2469alpha wrote: Stealing software is the same as stealing any physical property.

No it's not. When you steal physical property you deprive the owner of that property. Using unlicensed software is a breach of copyright. This is not theft no matter how much Warner Brothers, Microsoft and any other IP developer will try to make you think it is. Tell me, where and when do people get charged or convicted of theft for using unlicensed software, or copying dvd's or what have you.

I do not agree that people should do it, it is generally a criminal breach of copyright depending on what country you are in, but it ain't theft. I agree that as a developer you may feel like someone is stealing from you, just as an animal rights campaigner feels that it is murder when I step on a cockroach. Feelings aren't laws though.

You love splitting hairs, don't you? Someone steals a copy of my software off a warez site. They have physical possession of the software package and I did not get paid for it. What's the difference between this and stealing a car of a dealer lot? None. In each case the thief has appropriated property for his own use without compensation to the rightful owner. This is theft. That the law does not cover this theft is a problem with the law, not the definition.

Your other 'examples' are bogus. Fair use doctrine permits me copies for my own personal use (not withstanding the assholes at Apple and other places who want me to buy two or three copies for different devices). Fair use doctrine permits me to copy my LP or 8 track to a new format.

Strong Eagle wrote:

rattlesnake wrote:

sierra2469alpha wrote: Stealing software is the same as stealing any physical property.

No it's not. When you steal physical property you deprive the owner of that property. Using unlicensed software is a breach of copyright. This is not theft no matter how much Warner Brothers, Microsoft and any other IP developer will try to make you think it is. Tell me, where and when do people get charged or convicted of theft for using unlicensed software, or copying dvd's or what have you.

I do not agree that people should do it, it is generally a criminal breach of copyright depending on what country you are in, but it ain't theft. I agree that as a developer you may feel like someone is stealing from you, just as an animal rights campaigner feels that it is murder when I step on a cockroach. Feelings aren't laws though.

You love splitting hairs, don't you? Someone steals a copy of my software off a warez site. They have physical possession of the software package and I did not get paid for it. What's the difference between this and stealing a car of a dealer lot? None. In each case the thief has appropriated property for his own use without compensation to the rightful owner. This is theft. That the law does not cover this theft is a problem with the law, not the definition.

Your other 'examples' are bogus. Fair use doctrine permits me copies for my own personal use (not withstanding the assholes at Apple and other places who want me to buy two or three copies for different devices). Fair use doctrine permits me to copy my LP or 8 track to a new format.

Take a breath for a minute and go back to the original statement which I disagreed with. "Stealing software is the same as stealing any physical property." Stealing software when it is a cd, in a box, in a shop is a theft. This is because it is physical. In the context of the discussion, someone coming into Singapore with some unlicensed software on his PC, assuming he downloaded some warez, this is not stealing. This is because it is not a physical item. It exists logically. It is still a potential deprivation of someone's income which can be rectified through a law suit, and it is still generally a breach of copyright.

The bit a few of you are arguing about is, you are getting hung up on whether downloading some warez is theft. I am saying it is not, but to developers it feels like theft. The point being, just because it feels like theft, doesn't make it theft. In fact, those who download pirate software generally get in stife for sharing it through kazaa or torrents i.e. distributing as opposed to just using.

Your 'fair use doctrine' is right where you own the product, but does it apply to where you buy an LV wallet from a night market, or copy your friends Barry Manilow MP3 discography where he owns the back catalogue but you don't. The point I am making is that for years, most of us have taken advantage of other peoples IP. Most of us have bought a fake Rolex at some point, cheap Ray Bans or have a Ralph Lauren polo shirt that cost 20% of the original. All take advantage of someone elses IP and most of the population happily strut around without a care in the world. The guy with unlicensed software on his PC is no different. All of a sudden though everyone gets shirty about it. If you really feel it is stealing, next time you see someone with some pirate DVD's, call the police.

This is because it is not a physical item. It exists logically.

Sorry, it exists physically on the disk, or the thumb drive or where ever it might be stored... just like it exists physically on the CD.

Whether or not I still have a copy after you steal it is beside the point. You have taken it. Taking without permission is theft, no matter how you wish to define it, and it should be prosecuted as theft.

PS: My breathing's just fine. How about yours?

Strong Eagle wrote:

This is because it is not a physical item. It exists logically.

Sorry, it exists physically on the disk, or the thumb drive or where ever it might be stored... just like it exists physically on the CD.

Whether or not I still have a copy after you steal it is beside the point. You have taken it. Taking without permission is theft, no matter how you wish to define it, and it should be prosecuted as theft.

PS: My breathing's just fine. How about yours?

Just cos you believe that, doesn't make it so. If software was physical don't you think it would be called err hardware? You can't see it, you can't touch it and you can't throw it at your wife during an argument.

Singapore Penal Code - Theft:
378. Whoever, intending to take dishonestly any movable property out of the possession of any person without that person’s consent, moves that property in order to such taking, is said to commit theft.

“Movable property”