Singapore Expats

Hi Parents!

We (Asian family right here) are at the verge of choosing between SAIS or OFS for our 8th grader.
My son is into competitive basketball (he will join the audition, hopefully to represent the school), into swimming, video auditor, and music.
He has regular academics skills, which I think only International Schools can push or maximize their talents beside academic.

We visited these schools for tours and found them interesting and exciting at the same time, of course nothing is perfect.
We have the ideas that:
a. SAIS = American style school, freedom of learning and seems to be more into western culture (IB fits so well), a complete package of talent learning instead of too academic, close to downtown.
-Negative: not much green area, freedom to express yourselves (teachers & students can grow long hair, male teachers can wear earrings, outside the class students can sit like on the bed or raise their feet even in the library, tattoo? Which I think this type of expression should only be allowed in university, not in MS or HS especially in the strong Asian-cultured country like Singapore.
-Additional view: SAIS opens about LGBT society, which is nothing wrong with it because it is part of the community.

b. OFS = More blended culture (Asia culture still nourish strong), more outdoor and green environment, better layout, very clean class & environment, interesting curriculum which is IB x IGCSE (not sure how they combine these curriculum because both are opposite systems), has a shuttle service to drop us in Pasir Ris MRT station, nearby the sea so students can experience sea activities easier, location is very near to green area.
Negative: I heard teachers are "not loyal" (not sure in 2024 still happen)? Front desk lady is stiffed (maybe just me), I saw many of the kids mingle with their own origin country groups especially outside the school, location far from downtown.
- I am not sure if OFS speaks open about LGBT.

My son loves OFS, but I think SAIS gives more based on his talents.
But I have to appreciate his choice because this is his time and moment to enjoy whichever good school that he is interested in.

I really would like to hear your ideas and thoughts.
Thank you for any suggestions.

You mentioned that you were an Asian family, but there are Asian Americans, Asian Australians, etc… and even if you are from Asia, there are vast differences across Asia and across ASEAN. Even within Singapore there are large differences between heartlander and cosmopolitan demographics.

It also seems unclear whether you want a more conservative or liberal, academic or free wheeling environment for your child.

If you want conservative, you should consider ICS which you can think of as the Christian American School. If you want strong academics, you can consider SJI which you can think of as the local International School. OFS has long been known here as the best choice for academically weaker and students who are more slack. SAIS is relatively new but from what I’ve heard, it’s less of an American school and more of an International school using American curriculum.

You didn’t mention it, but an important consideration for your 8th grader is where they will go to college. US system (AP) is best only if they are US bound. The Swiss IB system is harder, but more broadly accepted around the world. The UK (A-Level) is best for college acceptance in counties with British patterned education, including Singapore.

You are very detailed and I thankful for your suggestion.

We are from a conservative Asian family but I always try to balance my son with current society without leaving our root.
Our family has too many generation gap (4 generations still leaving together as a big fam with more than 1 religion). It is more like "MIXED / Padang RICE" in the Food Republic food court, if you know what I am saying. So kinda complicated to do the leap of faith without respecting the elderly (Disney's MULAN stuff: Even Mushu always against Mulan's decisions ).

I am just considering between OFS vs SAIS. What you said about both schools put me into consideration very carefully. I agree with your opinion regarding SAIS. On the other hand, I am starting to have doubt with OFS because people tend to comment the teachers like to "jump ship".
Well, for me, academics are not everything and I would like to push whatever talents my son has now, which is he is into basketball (he becomes a student athlete in our home country), into swimming, video editor, and music. He is not so bad in academics but he has nothing special about it, just a standard academic student. That is why I learn that OFS & SAIS could give these talent facilities including ACSIS &SEASAC and other competitions to boost his confidence and adding new friends.

We are aiming for New Zealand for his university, but it is situational. Could be the States (I was once there 20 yrs ago so it is easier for me to understand the system). But nothing is fixed yet.

malcontent wrote: ↑

Sat, 24 Aug 2024 9:52 am

You mentioned that you were an Asian family, but there are Asian Americans, Asian Australians, etc… and even if you are from Asia, there are vast differences across Asia and across ASEAN. Even within Singapore there are large differences between heartlander and cosmopolitan demographics.

It also seems unclear whether you want a more conservative or liberal, academic or free wheeling environment for your child.

If you want conservative, you should consider ICS which you can think of as the Christian American School. If you want strong academics, you can consider SJI which you can think of as the local International School. OFS has long been known here as the best choice for academically weaker and students who are more slack. SAIS is relatively new but from what I’ve heard, it’s less of an American school and more of an International school using American curriculum.

You didn’t mention it, but the more important consideration for your 8th grader is where they will go to college. US system (AP) is best only if they are US bound. The Swiss IB system is harder, but more broadly accepted around the world. The UK (A-Level) is best for college acceptance in counties with British patterned education, including Singapore.

I can relate to your family situation.

I am from a very tight knit, small town, highly conservative American family and went to a parochial school (even more conservative and Bible centered than ICS here).

My wife also comes from a similarly tight knit conservative Chinese family from a small-ish town in Indonesia. I had an instant connection with her due to our shared values, despite being from opposite ends of the earth.

As we’ve raised our kids, I have tried to instill in them the best of both worlds. There is such a thing as good Western values (despite what many people in Asia might think) and many Western virtues are a higher standard than what is common in the East. However, I also appreciate that Asian culture has many virtues that are of a higher standard than what is common in the West.

The reason I bring this up is because no matter what school your child goes to, you have to train them in the way they should go. If something is being done in school that goes against your values, it’s an opportunity to teach your child why you don’t agree with it — that can be even more valuable than going to a school where everything aligns with your values and your child learns nothing about how to navigate this world.

OFS is not a good school. SAIS is a for profit school.

In general I recommend not for profit over for profit schools. At present these are ICS, SAS, Tanglin, Nexus (I think) as well as the ones you cannot get into I suspect such as SJI (St Joseph Internationa) and HCI.

If you can get your child into a local school that would be best but is probably impossible.

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Sat, 24 Aug 2024 4:17 pm

OFS is not a good school. SAIS is a for profit school.

In general I recommend not for profit over for profit schools. At present these are ICS, SAS, Tanglin, Nexus (I think) as well as the ones you cannot get into I suspect such as SJI (St Joseph Internationa) and HCI.

If you can get your child into a local school that would be best but is probably impossible.

If aiming for NZ (why? It only has one or two internationally 'good' universities) make sure you truly understand the admission requirements. I would probably recommend Australia over NZ if you want to go South but honestly these days I'd throw Malaysia, Phillipines and Indonesia into the mix as well.

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Sat, 24 Aug 2024 4:19 pm

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Sat, 24 Aug 2024 4:17 pm

OFS is not a good school. SAIS is a for profit school.

In general I recommend not for profit over for profit schools. At present these are ICS, SAS, Tanglin, Nexus (I think) as well as the ones you cannot get into I suspect such as SJI (St Joseph Internationa) and HCI.

If you can get your child into a local school that would be best but is probably impossible.

If aiming for NZ (why? It only has one or two internationally 'good' universities) make sure you truly understand the admission requirements. I would probably recommend Australia over NZ if you want to go South but honestly these days I'd throw Malaysia, Phillipines and Indonesia into the mix as well.

I was wondering the same, but then thought… it has to be potential immigration benefits. Can’t be for the sheep

I am glad that both of you gave me more broader views. I am just targeting the process of my son without thinking too much about universities yet.

Yes, I am from a small conservative city of Indonesia so the Chinese culture is still think like the vintage Singaporeans. But again, I need to try to educate my son how to face the world in balance. Not too over-lean to one thing, such as religion.

I do not mind for a profit school as long as they provide good facilities, different and interesting things for my son. But again, not just for show, school need to provide what we paid for. I understand that education and good facilities are expensive. Furthermore, I would like to push my son's talents. Maybe it is not a bright idea for most parents but with this dynamic era, we have to be prepared for upcoming challenges.

For local schools, I do not think my son's potential can grow there. I know, the good side is much cheaper compare to International Schools, and they are so focused in academics.

Why New Zealand for university? Because that what is life quality suppose to be. They have to learn how to love the earth and respect their surroundings. Migration could be the option because NZ has much room to grow, as an instance, yes, breeding sheep or cows or even as a vet. We never know But many extraordinary different things can be done there.
China is on the list as well but that is to study their language, third is the States.
The last one is in Indonesia because he has the student athlete opportunity in Indonesia.

But for now, International School in Singapore is my target to nourish my son's English, his life lesson skills, and to learn to be more confident in his new surroundings.
New friends from different countries, races, cultures can add his knowledge about how diverse and wide this world is, so he can respect and understand the differentiation. Lastly, he has to learn from young age how to be independent especially when his parents are far from him.

malcontent wrote: ↑

Sat, 24 Aug 2024 11:28 pm

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Sat, 24 Aug 2024 4:19 pm

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Sat, 24 Aug 2024 4:17 pm

OFS is not a good school. SAIS is a for profit school.

In general I recommend not for profit over for profit schools. At present these are ICS, SAS, Tanglin, Nexus (I think) as well as the ones you cannot get into I suspect such as SJI (St Joseph Internationa) and HCI.

If you can get your child into a local school that would be best but is probably impossible.

If aiming for NZ (why? It only has one or two internationally 'good' universities) make sure you truly understand the admission requirements. I would probably recommend Australia over NZ if you want to go South but honestly these days I'd throw Malaysia, Phillipines and Indonesia into the mix as well.

I was wondering the same, but then thought… it has to be potential immigration benefits. Can’t be for the sheep

NZ is beautiful but expensive and hard to find work in. What about Taiwan?

My kids are just entering college now, so I can tell you that 8th grade is definitely the time to start thinking seriously about what path you want your child to pursue — the last four years is what most colleges look at in terms of academic and nonacademic achievements. IB is the most widely accepted globally, so it’s probably the best choice unless you are going for American or British systems.

Indonesia isn’t a bad option to do the IB, I’ve got several nephews and nieces there who are doing that right now, definitely cheaper than Singapore.

If you like the outdoors/nature, you can also consider the Bay Area/Northern California or Seattle in the US or Vancouver in Canada. All are expensive (or far from cheap), and the opportunity set varies quite a bit.

In reality, these days any place with a large opportunity set or nice amenities (weather, entertainment, etc) is going to cost a fair amount when one is just starting out.

It is definitely important to think about where the student may want to go to university and understand the admission requirements before entering Year 9.

Even so, I don't think the two curriculum tracks you are looking at are that different (SAIS also offers IB?). I believe the AP track allows a student to accumulate more college credits than he or she could accumulate in the IB track (generally limited to the three HL subjects). That being said, some universities have a limit on the number of credits you can transfer in (in which case, many AP courses are only used in other ways).

I think the bigger clash is between the UK and American systems. You won't be in a UK based system and unless you are targeting the most selective universities there, it probably won't matter that much either.

You can also look at the different university curriculums. Again, the US and UK tend to be on the two ends with many other countries somewhere between the two (although quite frankly, I’m not sure many people really care when deciding on a university).

I totally agree that Indonesia way much cheaper than Singapore by many things and the international education in Indonesia has so much improvement.

Problem with small city middle school students are they do not have too many choices of activities to grow their talents, and have limited knowledge of what kind of path they really want because everything is so laid back. This is why I think is about time for them to study in Singapore because is safer (in term of drugs and find the right friends), and learning how to be independent is by progress not random (teens in Indonesia is so crucial if lack of supervision, they have easy access in many negative things, and many parents are too pampering them).

I have some interesting several paths for him to choose later, but because being a small city kid, the bigger picture is still limited for him to digest. So I have to believe in this process.

I really appreciate your explanation and I will take this note seriously.

malcontent wrote: ↑

Mon, 26 Aug 2024 1:10 am

My kids are just entering college now, so I can tell you that 8th grade is definitely the time to start thinking seriously about what path you want your child to pursue — the last four years is what most colleges look at in terms of academic and nonacademic achievements. IB is the most widely accepted globally, so it’s probably the best choice unless you are going for American or British systems.

Indonesia isn’t a bad option to do the IB, I’ve got several nephews and nieces there who are doing that right now, definitely cheaper than Singapore.

I lived in Irvine, CA for 2 weeks in searching a college before finally to decide to join OSU, about 20 years ago. Ohio was not as friendly as CA though
California is amazing, no doubt: everyone is so friendly, weather is amazing, neighbors are welcoming to each other, and a dream for everyone to stay like in Hollywood's screens, but is it still the same now?
Canada is awesome as well I heard, yes I noticed. These countries are on my list for him to choose because he loves basketball so much so I think these are only the best places for him to enjoy his teen life with sports while pursuing his education and do different kind of works so for him to prepare in setting a steady yet challenging life in the future.

NYY1 wrote: ↑

Mon, 26 Aug 2024 6:11 am

If you like the outdoors/nature, you can also consider the Bay Area/Northern California or Seattle in the US or Vancouver in Canada. All are expensive (or far from cheap), and the opportunity set varies quite a bit.

In reality, these days any place with a large opportunity set or nice amenities (weather, entertainment, etc) is going to cost a fair amount when one is just starting out.

I do not expect him to only work in NZ. I hope he needs to set up his own business in the country he will choose later to settle down.

Taiwan and mostly Guangzhou. We have a family and friend there, many language school scholarships are offered. So it will be not too hard to plan. Most importantly, it is a must to learn Chinese. I will send him, maybe before his university life for a year or 2.
Yes, Taiwan or China are not university destination for him. It is only to learn Chinese.

PNGMK wrote: ↑

Sun, 25 Aug 2024 7:40 pm

NZ is beautiful but expensive and hard to find work in. What about Taiwan?