Dating situation for caucasian European males in Singapore

[jpatokal]

Well, I am a little tired of the western mentality and attitudes.

I'm afraid you may find that many Singaporean women have all the negative sides of "Western mentality" (consumerism, insecurity, obsession with wealth, status and appearance) without the positive ones (independence, freedom, tolerance).

When I was an exchange student in the USA, I met some girls who where born and raised in Asia (China, Japan, India, etc) and they all had much, much better personalities than girls growing up in the USA and in Scandinavia (I'm from Denmark).

But did you have a serious relationship with any of those "Asian Asian" girls? The public side of their "personality" may be quite different from what they're like in private, and it can easily take over half a year until they reveal their true colors -- which aren't necessarily the "lotus flower/geisha girl/china doll" that you might expect from the appearance.

[birkin]

This thread has taken a 'doom and gloom' tone it seems

Some forum posters are already listing the negative aspects of Asian women and all I have to say as an Asian lady myself, is that there is no such thing as The Perfect Man or woman.

Everyone has their insecurities/flaws/baggage - I'm sure Carsten54 and everyone else is aware of that. Women all over the world have their own set of problems and what-not.

Maybe we should look on the positive side and wish him luck and hopefully he'll find what he's looking for, over here in Singapore. Since Danish/US girls are not working for him, who knows, perhaps someone from Singapore will? I've certainly seen happy Western/Asian pairings amongst my friends. =)

[sundaymorningstaple]

This thread has taken a 'doom and gloom' tone it seems

Some forum posters are already listing the negative aspects of Asian women and all I have to say as an Asian lady myself, is that there is no such thing as The Perfect Man or woman.

Everyone has their insecurities/flaws/baggage - I'm sure Carsten54 and everyone else is aware of that. Women all over the world have their own set of problems and what-not.

Maybe we should look on the positive side and wish him luck and hopefully he'll find what he's looking for, over here in Singapore. Since Danish/US girls are not working for him, who knows, perhaps someone from Singapore will? I've certainly seen happy Western/Asian pairings amongst my friends. =)

birkin, no, it's not doom & gloom. It's purely reality. For every one of us here like me (26 years married to an Asian girl) there are 49 other couples who did not make it. The ones you see are usually either newlyweds (less than 5 years) or the survivors who are going the distance. It's good to see the reality going in and knowing that it's a lot of hard work.

When I say hard work, you seem to be taking it as negative against the Asian girl, but the reality of it is that it's hard on both. Neither ever is what the other imagined. But here, as it is an expat website, the perspective is from the western males viewpoint. However, for the Asian girl, the reality of the western male in all his farting, independent, belligerent glory takes some getting used to as well (and often they never do). Nobody is saying the western male is a prize catch. (although we like to think so)

So to turn that around so we don't look too bad (us western males) the girl stays as long as she can stand it, till she's milked the guy dry and then she runs home to momma citing irreconcilable differences. The only thing that cannot be reconciled is the bank account usually, especially if the guy tends to travel a lot and has given the girl access to his account! It's easy to tell I used to work offshore in the Oil Industry isn't it. I've known too many who have been taken for a ride while thinking they were doing the driving, but as they were smitten with the "Submissive" "Docile" "Graceful" Asia cutie, they would not listen to reason until they had been sucked dry. Then it's, "we told you so"

[carsten_54]

Thanks everybody that contributed to this thread so far, I am more than happy to learn about this from all angles.

Are there any unwritten rules in Singaporian relationships (for examples, the man works and the female stays at home raising the kids)? Is there such a thing as gender equity or is one considered superior the other? What expectations do Singaporian females have on their husbands? I have a very modern view on relationships and I am probably more the husband/father type of guy than a drink-beer-and-watch-football-with-the-buddies type of guy and I would prefer a relationship with gender equity where both have a job and contributes equally to the relationship. Does Singapore sound like a good choice for me?

[Girl_Next_Door]

Well, I am a little tired of the western mentality and attitudes. When I was an exchange student in the USA, I met some girls who where born and raised in Asia (China, Japan, India, etc) and they all had much, much better personalities than girls growing up in the USA and in Scandinavia (I'm from Denmark). Finding a single Asian girl who grew up in Asia isn't very easy in Denmark. Somebody pointed out that the divorce rates are high so if I would manage to find an Asian girl here in Denmark and we would divorce, then I would probably be single for many years before I find a new girl. If I live in Asia, finding a new Asian girl raised in Asia shouldn't be that hard. Also, I would like to explore Asia and living in Singapore I would live close to most other Asian coutries. A third reason is the climate, we have very depressing weather up here in Scandinavia. Why do you ask? Do you not recommend me moving there? If so, why not?

I think for a start, even though girls from China, Japan, India, Korea, HK, SG are generally known as Asians, they are vastly different because of the cultural and family background. Even a Brit and American are different, despite their first language are both English!

So to answer your question, yes it will be fairly easy to find a single Asian girl in Singapore. But, hopefully, finding a partner is not the key reason for you to move to SG.

I work in a Nordic bank, so personally, I feel that Scandis are very friendly and easy-going. In that aspect, I don't think you will have problems finding friends in Singapore, or in most Asia countries.

Other stuff to consider: I don't think there is a big population of Scandis in Sg (compared to US/UK, Germany, etc) and I have a feeling that most Scandis in Sg are married (with kids). Most of my colleagues rarely go out for that occasional beer or rarely socialize after work. They are very family oriented (which probably explain why you are seeking to settle down soon as well). So if you prefer to "hang out" with Scandis, it might be harder.

On the other hand, there are a lot of expats singles in Singapore, which will be a good cultural exchange, as long as you are opened to it. I know expats who only stick/hang out with their "countryman" and intentionally avoid conversation from anyone who is not from their own country. Then again, to each its own.

I would suggest (IMHO) that your decision should be focus more on other things like your ability to get used to the weather here (its not as depressing, but its bloody hot!!! There are no 4 seasons here, only hot, and rainy seasons!)? Whether it is a wise career move to come to SG? Are you open to trying different food/culture? Do you enjoy traveling (since traveling out of SG is really cheap and convenient)? How comfortable are you in starting afresh in a new country (ranging from sorting out accomodation to making new friends)?

The "felling-in-love" and "setting down" portion, personally, will happen regardless where you are in, if its the right one. If its the wrong one, its as bad as buying a bride online! Which, you can happen regardless where you are!

[cattidudette]

Interesting thread.

I'm a 100% local Singapore girl and I fully agree with some girls going after money from the whites. Over here I have many Caucasian friends which often leads to my friend categorizing me as a SPG. But I reckon they do not know that I do not sleep with my foreign friends, neither did I use a wee bit of their money. So rest assure you might find some exceptions.

Someone's right with the baby thingy. I would love to have a cute baby if I meet someone right. BUT, I had dated both locals and Caucasians and I think they are no different. It really depends on individual.

One good thing about dating Singapore girls might be the fact they are more open-minded (not just being slutty) compared to girls from Thailand, Cambodia etc, if that is what you are looking for. On the downside, women of my age are generally pretty high-maintainance and I do not really like that.

Whoever you meet, just be a tad more careful. If someone's out for your money, you know any man/woman of any race will be able to achieve that.

[Girl_Next_Door]

Thanks everybody that contributed to this thread so far, I am more than happy to learn about this from all angles.

Are there any unwritten rules in Singaporian relationships (for examples, the man works and the female stays at home raising the kids)? Is there such a thing as gender equity or is one considered superior the other? What expectations do Singaporian females have on their husbands? I have a very modern view on relationships and I am probably more the husband/father type of guy than a drink-beer-and-watch-football-with-the-buddies type of guy and I would prefer a relationship with gender equity where both have a job and contributes equally to the relationship. Does Singapore sound like a good choice for me?

For most SG married couples, both the husband and wife are working and contributes fairly equally to the household. This is largely because their individual salary is not high for 1 person to support the entire household alone. You should probably know that the average household income in SG is $4,950/month (from Sg Stat Board).

The fact that you are probably earning a lot more than that, it is likely that your gf/wife is going to have an implicit preference to be a stay-home wife/mum (or Tai-Tai). Especially if she is earning anything less than $3K.

[carsten_54]

...average household income in SG is $4,950/month (from Sg Stat Board).

The fact that you are probably earning a lot more than that, it is likely that your gf/wife is going to have an implicit preference to be a stay-home wife/mum (or Tai-Tai). Especially if she is earning anything less than $3K.

I did some research I think I can expect to make about $3000-$4000 (Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science with 5 years experience). If a girl would pick me because she thinks I make loads of money, she will probably leave when she finds out what I actually make. So, actually, I think the gold-digger problem will solve itself and that's a good thing.

[birkin]

Interesting thread.

I'm a 100% local Singapore girl and I fully agree with some girls going after money from the whites. Over here I have many Caucasian friends which often leads to my friend categorizing me as a SPG. But I reckon they do not know that I do not sleep with my foreign friends, neither did I use a wee bit of their money. So rest assure you might find some exceptions.

Someone's right with the baby thingy. I would love to have a cute baby if I meet someone right. BUT, I had dated both locals and Caucasians and I think they are no different. It really depends on individual.

One good thing about dating Singapore girls might be the fact they are more open-minded (not just being slutty) compared to girls from Thailand, Cambodia etc, if that is what you are looking for. On the downside, women of my age are generally pretty high-maintainance and I do not really like that.

Whoever you meet, just be a tad more careful. If someone's out for your money, you know any man/woman of any race will be able to achieve that.

You are pretty much right. Singaporean women are a little more 'Western' as compared to Malaysian, Cambodian etc women in general. And women here can be pretty high-maintenance But most of us work for our own cash and being groomed is very important at work.

And to answer Carsten54's question, yes, in most Singaporean households nowadays, both the wife and husband work because the standard of living here is quite high.

[Asian_Geekette]

I did some research I think I can expect to make about $3000-$4000 (Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science with 5 years experience). If a girl would pick me because she thinks I make loads of money, she will probably leave when she finds out what I actually make. So, actually, I think the gold-digger problem will solve itself and that's a good thing.

carsten54,

Not to burst your bubble there but due to the financial crisis, the money's not that good in the IT industry now. Other Asian IT professionals would settle for the lower range in your quoted price (above). Unless you really have very very specialized skills.

If you really want to marry an Asian woman, make sure you're really open to different ways of doing things/seeing things. Working in Asia will give you a chance to experience a different culture. Plus you'll get to have more chances to date Asian women.

Just make sure you make an effort to learn something about the culture of the Asian woman that you get to date. Take note that you don't only have Singaporean women for your dating choices in Singapore. There are Filipinas, Indonesians, Malaysians, Thai and other Asians here in Singapore. In terms of being open-minded, it's not just with the nationalities. I've met very liberal and open-minded Filipina and Thai women. It depends on the personality of the person involved.

Good luck with your decision to move!

[jpatokal]

I did some research I think I can expect to make about $3000-$4000 (Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science with 5 years experience).

Not to burst your bubble there but due to the financial crisis, the money's not that good in the IT industry now. Other Asian IT professionals would settle for the lower range in your quoted price (above). Unless you really have very very specialized skills.

...and I was just about to bust carsten's chops for being willing to work for such a low wage. S$3000 is 1500 euros, which is less than minimum wage in most Nordic countries! You should be aiming to make at least as much as you do now in Denmark.

This is not in Europe: the uncomfortable truth is that in Singapore, your salary is determined by your skin color as well as your skills. $3000-4000 is what a local might expect to make, but there are lots of Indian and Filipino people here earning much less (we had a guy here recently complaining about his $500 salary) ... and lots of white boys earning a lot more.

[carsten_54]

...You should be aiming to make at least as much as you do now in Denmark.

Well, in Denmark I make about $9000 (before subtracting about 40% income tax) and I was not planning to get a job as an expat. I've read a some posts about Singaporian salaries and since I would be on a local (non-expat) contract, and taking into account that I am caucasian, I think I would make about $4000. Of course, right now getting a job at all is very difficult so I'd probably have to wait until the economy is doing better. Anyhow, this thread is not about salaries, but wouldn't we all agree that I would be a poor person living a simple life (no car, rent a room, eat home-cooked food, etc) in Singapore and therefore gold-diggers would stay away from me?

[QRM]

They will be replaced by brass diggers

[Asian_Geekette]

Anyhow, this thread is not about salaries, but wouldn't we all agree that I would be a poor person living a simple life (no car, rent a room, eat home-cooked food, etc) in Singapore and therefore gold-diggers would stay away from me?

It really depends on where would you be hanging out to meet girls. You'll probably meet some gold or brass diggers around the expat hang-outs but then I'm sure you'll get the vibe about their intentions immediately when they find out you're just renting a room and not a plush condo in Orchard Road.

Hate to burst your bubble again but if you're going to be renting a room and cooking home-cooked meals, be prepared to look around a bit longer for places to live in. I see a lot of adverts for room for rent with the stipulation that one can not cook. Or can only cook light stuff (don't know what they mean by this, perhaps just boil an egg?).

Though if you do find out a place where you can cook, then you can take your date to your place and cook for her. That would be nice.

[jpatokal]

Well, in Denmark I make about $9000 (before subtracting about 40% income tax) and I was not planning to get a job as an expat. I've read a some posts about Singaporian salaries and since I would be on a local (non-expat) contract, and taking into account that I am caucasian, I think I would make about $4000.

So you're willing to lose $5000/mo just to have the opportunity to date Asian chicks?

Anyhow, this thread is not about salaries, but wouldn't we all agree that I would be a poor person living a simple life (no car, rent a room, eat home-cooked food, etc) in Singapore and therefore gold-diggers would stay away from me?

If I wanted someone with $4000 worth of generic IT skills, I'd hire a local instead of taking my chances with EP applications.

Incidentally, in Singapore, it's usually cheaper to eat out than to cook your own food -- especially if the stuff you'd cook yourself is Western (salads, meat-heavy dishes, etc).