God Existance: Yes or No

[Kurozu]

Have you talked to many Domestic Helpers here in Singapore? If you did you might believe that this was the Southern US as well regarding the treating of people like slaves.

haha... DV on DH! You should set up a new topic.

[2die4]

indeed i did.

i don't think believing in santa clause is an accurate comparison. last i checked people don't kill each other over their varying beliefs in santa clause.

but i zeroed in on this phrase: "The fact that we are thinking beings and intelligent ones in this case is enough proof that God made a good work in his creation."

to me this says you ascribe to to the creationism school of religious thought. Then it boils down to ... what the hell did god create? just humans? did he create grass or disease?

and where does it stop? if we're going to teach creationism, can i come up with the religion of "Sim City" and argue that we're all just participants in a video game? why can we not teach that in school curriculums?

i don't beileve in god, but i believe in hope and statisics that show that someone has to overcome severe adversity to beat the odds. hope and religion are two seperate things in my opinion. i believe in religion as it ascribes to culture in terms of beautiful gothic churches such as notre dame or beautiful indian / thai temples or wonderful mosques of Iran. or the rich history of story telling....such as the story of santa clause.

My view about Santa Claus is in response to kurozo's post if you will read from the previous post, i'm not saying that it has direct connection with believing in God, thank you.

I'm not a religious person and for me belief in God does not necessarily equate to religion... I don't go to Church every Sunday, I don't do the orthodox stuff and such likes.... but I believe in God... if you have reasons for not believing so, it's your choice... i don't need to argue with all the "to me this says you ascribe to to the creationism school of religious thought. Then it boils down to ... what the hell did god create? just humans? did he create grass or disease?" thing...

My relationship with God is like having a friend, a true and good friend (and the deifinition of true and good can be subjective) and that's it for me...

[Kurozu]

I've never understood the logic of the "you can't prove God exists therefore he doesn't" argument. That is awful logic. If we can't prove God exists, we can't prove he exists. That's all, nothing more. We also can't prove that he does not exist. So logical proof is moot.

All that is needed is to show that the notion of a God does not contradict what we know of logic, science, history etc.

Has anyone here read Conversations with God (all 3 books)? It's blasphemous by some accounts but I've never seen a better marriage of God and logic.

I have never read the Conversations with God. Do you care to share your views on CWG?

[huggybear]

My view about Santa Claus is in response to kurozo's post if you will read from the previous post, i'm not saying that it has direct connection with believing in God, thank you.

I'm not a religious person and for me belief in God does not necessarily equate to religion... I don't go to Church every Sunday, I don't do the orthodox stuff and such likes.... but I believe in God... if you have reasons for not believing so, it's your choice... i don't need to argue with all the "to me this says you ascribe to to the creationism school of religious thought. Then it boils down to ... what the hell did god create? just humans? did he create grass or disease?" thing...

My relationship with God is like having a friend, a true and good friend (and the deifinition of true and good can be subjective) and that's it for me...

well said!

[./.]

./., (gosh, its impossible to even attempt to say your nick in my head - like talking to a robot instead of a real person)

Your summary says better than myself what I think. I'm in total agreement with you.

I've never understood the logic of the "you can't prove God exists therefore he doesn't" argument. That is awful logic. If we can't prove God exists, we can't prove he exists. That's all, nothing more. We also can't prove that he does not exist. So logical proof is moot.

All that is needed is to show that the notion of a God does not contradict what we know of logic, science, history etc.

Has anyone here read Conversations with God (all 3 books)? It's blasphemous by some accounts but I've never seen a better marriage of God and logic.

Hi Windy!

Call me R. Daneel Olivaw Most posters want to call me nose thanks to (a certain) Mr Oz

Robots! Are you too a robot fan?

I think you will love J Krishnamurti (if you have not read him). Will get you some choice links in a day or two. You could just google him and skim the wikilifestory websites (there are many) and go straight to his work.

PS: I really am a Robot.

[./.]

WIMH forget I said that. JK needs the perfect introduction. I have the first chapter of the perfect book (for this thread) scanned, I just need to find it. In the words of the esteemed Jimi "Are you ready for the experience" ?!?! :dancing banana:

PS. not patronising.

[./.]

OK here it is. A short introduction.

J Krishnamurti was an Indian philosopher.

Dr David Bohm was a physicist who was Albert Einstein's protege. In the words of Einstein - David Bohm "is my intellectual son" and David Bohm "is my intellectual heir". Einstein spent all of his life after finding the 'Theory of Relativity', in searching for the 'Theory of Everything' (aka God). He died feeling he was ever so close. About the 'Theory of Everything', Einstein said "if anyone can find it, it will be Bohm". Bohm too died without finding it, but took the exploration much further through Quantum Physics.

This book is one of many conversations between JK and DB who were best buddies for 30 years.

Hope JK will touch you too...






Edited by sms: just click on the thumbnails to see the full sized pages. (from left to right top to bottom.

[./.]

Mods, my apologies if this is cluttering the thread. If you want to move it to a new thread...

Hope the above editing was okay.

sms

[Wind In My Hair]

ok Nose, I actually ploughed through all the pages and frankly the style annoys me. Too wordy and repetitive. Though the point about the illusion of time and the pressure of needing to become rather than revelling in what is, is both valid and interesting.

I have never read the Conversations with God. Do you care to share your views on CWG?

Doing that would be like trying to describe Disneyland to you by saying "It's fun!" There's no way my view could capture the essence of the conversations, and my view doesn't really matter to you, only yours does. I would suggest you read it if you're interested.

[./.]

Wow, you're quick! Yes, JK had a wide reputation for being excruciatingly repetitive.

Also, its very hard to do what JK suggests, as in an immediate end to all conditioning.

So are you back?

[Wind In My Hair]

So who are you on the other forum? Yes just got back and checking email before I collapse into bed.

Immediate end to conditioning - difficult in most cases i dare say. Still, sometimes "the penny drops" or "the scales fall from my eyes" or "it hit me" etc. Some revelations or realisations can change our thinking in a split second.

[./.]

Same as here ./.

"Some revelations or realisations can change our thinking in a split second"
aka the Eureka Moment.

Some peer reviewed research being done indicates that at such moments, the brain cells themselves are transformed to something better. i.e. The quality of the brain itself changes.

For eg. the quality of an alcoholic's brain changes. (Degrades in this case)

Okie, nice ta meet ya WIMH. Laters

[sundaymorningstaple]

Are you two both talking about the right "Other Forum"? ./. is commonly found on Singapore-Forum, whereas you're normally on Sgexpat.

[ksl]

Though the point about the illusion of time and the pressure of needing to become rather than revelling in what is, is both valid and interesting.

I found it rather boring, what they're trying to come to terms with, is what you have said above, which is more to the truth, in my opinion.

Illusion = The dream = Created by energy = God = The Cosmos = Solar System= Matrix = The elements of life = Life

Life = Subjects = Objects = Energy = wind, rain, tides, sun, day, night = the solar system = perfectly in motion = Energy

Energy = Ego = Time = Calendar = Structure of Subject & Objects = Conflict

Cause = Effect = Negative or Positive result!


I also believe, that the brain = mind = 100% potential schizophrenics, that are measureable from borderline, to the burnt out, my theory is also borne out by the articles in yesterdays paper, whereby Singapore is worried that 1 in 4 are Schizophrenics and it's likely to get worse.

There are many factors involved, which are presently being studied in the USA mostly are young people, that have been in active service, I can relate to it, in many ways, becuase I have since discovered that the temporal lobe is not fully mature until in the twenties, and these young men are exposed to traumatic sights, and have to kill, to survive. Well if the brain=mind is not fully developed, what kind of people are we creating here!

If this is at all true, then we are breeding some sick mother----ers, through exposure to video games and TV, like from one dream to another!

Wars are the results of Egos negative energy gone wild. Killing machines, don't just stop killing, although it doesn't matter how bloody or messy one dies what you are seeing is the primitive past, it hasn't changed, only your world changed, it's just death and out of death comes life, there is nothing else, but the male function of securing his family tree! Kind of a primitive joke!

All people are capable of schizophrenia, which many will not believe, they think it to be a genetic mistake, rather than a fact of life, that overload of negative stress and traumas, will send you that way. No different to the computer and a virus.

I think one will find that all humans are susceptible to computer overload, many are in fact, able to communicate with god and many can also see, into the furture, the danger of travelling inside the mind, is that one is not always able to get back, it is negative overload from the outside that can question the inside.

There is a need to become one, with the cosmos, it's all part of the game, but we never get the message, until it's too late, and the self destruct button goes off! and the process will repeat itself, when the environment is repaired Mmm! Interesting

./. says: Some peer reviewed research being done indicates that at such moments, the brain cells themselves are transformed to something better

or worse!

Temporal Lobe Development:While this work suggests a wave of brain white matter development that flows from front to back, animal, functional brain imaging and postmortem studies have suggested that gray matter maturation flows in the opposite direction, with the frontal lobes not fully maturing until young adulthood. To confirm this in living humans, the UCLA researchers compared MRI scans of young adults, 23-30, with those of teens, 12-16.4 They looked for signs of myelin, which would imply more mature, efficient connections, within gray matter

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/Publicat/teenbrain.cfm

[Kurozu]

./. and WIMH......

what are you guys talking about? Are we still discussing about the "existance of god" ?

I like to read the Conversation with God, but something happen that I would like to share with you guys ....

I was interested in the CWG so I check onto their website http://www.cwg.org thinking that I can download a copy for free since (u know) this is sort of a Christian self-help book (aka bible) that mostly will be given free donwload. But NO!..... I have to pay $40 for the Complete Conversation with GOD! I thought this book is the soup for the soul for spreading the good news about God.

They need our money?

Anyway, I decided not to buy it and I search reading the comment from Neale (the author) to devour his God Msg as much as I can . Here is one news letter from Neale:

He says.....

My Dear Friends,

When I lived on the street (which I did, as you know, for the better part of a year), I used to go around asking people for quarters. I figured that if I could get a quarter a day from most of the people I asked, I could survive.

Today I'm asking you for a quarter. In fact, I'm asking if you could be kind enough to let go of a quarter a day, every day, to help me place the message of Conversations with God into the world.

According to San Francisco Chronicle (—Rabbi Michael LernerDecember 20-26, 1998) 2 million people already bought the book at $22.95 (not sure today). Movie deal + royalties from books + donation from readers = money for spreading the message of Conversations with God into the world....... something is fishy here. It is almost like using your donation to promote my product. Nice.