Homosexuality in Singapore: what is permitted and not?

[JR8]

All one has to do is go to his profile page and read his posts from the last time he was flouncing around here around 9 or 10 months ago to see the truth of your statement, JR8.

I have nothing at all against gays. I have everything against pretentious people regardless of their personal proclivities.

Yes well I'd agree with you there SMS.

My wife for various reasons has a few male friends who are SIA cabin crew. Of course as one might expect, they all as bent as a nine-bob note (trans: bent means both crooked/illicit, but can also mean homosexual. Nine bob = nine shillings, an impossible banknote denomination. So therefore the phrase means, being as clearly homosexual, as a 9 shilling banknote would be illicit). Anyway!

I know them pretty well, am fond of them, and they have been kind and courteous to us. I have to say though that as is common with Singaporean adults they are simply unable to participate in any kind of adult conversation, despite being into their 30's. If they are criticised on what they write or post (bear in mind that one mainstay of English humour is taking the P out of your friends. The more you know them the harder you do it...) even a song they link on Facebook they go into hysterics, and deep sulky moods.

Sadly I have had to pre-emptively de-Friend all but one of them from Facebook. I'm not interested in their sexuality. But the behaving like teenage schoolgirls is just not acceptable to me.

So yes, I could sense what I was facing with the earlier message. I was doing the Facebook de-Friending just two weeks ago...

[poodlek]

All one has to do is go to his profile page and read his posts from the last time he was flouncing around here around 9 or 10 months ago to see the truth of your statement, JR8.

I have nothing at all against gays. I have everything against pretentious people regardless of their personal proclivities.

It just goes to illustrate the point I made in another thread about an a**hole being an a**hole regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation. Although I'm loathe to admit it, even a Canadian can prove his/herself unfit for human interaction.

It's funny that he's so against Singlish and Singaporeans given he's a Singaporean citizen himself. That said, there is at least one thread I know of where it would be appropriate to voice views on this topic. This ain't that thread.

Also, in Canada, the appropriate contraction for 'government' is 'gov't'. But we're not in Canada, are we?

[jdaniel]

All one has to do is go to his profile page and read his posts from the last time he was flouncing around here around 9 or 10 months ago to see the truth of your statement, JR8.

I have nothing at all against gays. I have everything against pretentious people regardless of their personal proclivities.

It just goes to illustrate the point I made in another thread about an a**hole being an a**hole regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation. Although I'm loathe to admit it, even a Canadian can prove his/herself unfit for human interaction.

It's funny that he's so against Singlish and Singaporeans given he's a Singaporean citizen himself. That said, there is at least one thread I know of where it would be appropriate to voice views on this topic. This ain't that thread.

Also, in Canada, the appropriate contraction for 'government' is 'gov't'. But we're not in Canada, are we?

having been a former singapore citizen has no bearing upon how I speak. it is a matter of how you were brought up. if you had/have parents who are/were fishmongers and the like then you would speak that way.

and how one would spell something formally and informally is clearly different and I have nothing against using "u". "urs" and such when post online hence guv, guvment and such would make sense.

And if anyone thinks I am over reacting thats fine, I horse around with my friends all the time, but I dont know this loser from anywhere and how about taking a closer look at his posts he has nothing better to do than to troll and make pointless comments, my comments on the use of language is probably my first based totally upon my dislike for something that is purely personal Flounce around LOL oh boy...you sure have some imagination...

And I am done with subject

[JR8]

All one has to do is go to his profile page and read his posts from the last time he was flouncing around here around 9 or 10 months ago to see the truth of your statement, JR8.

I have nothing at all against gays. I have everything against pretentious people regardless of their personal proclivities.

It just goes to illustrate the point I made in another thread about an a**hole being an a**hole regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation. Although I'm loathe to admit it, even a Canadian can prove his/herself unfit for human interaction.

It's funny that he's so against Singlish and Singaporeans given he's a Singaporean citizen himself. That said, there is at least one thread I know of where it would be appropriate to voice views on this topic. This ain't that thread.

Also, in Canada, the appropriate contraction for 'government' is 'gov't'. But we're not in Canada, are we?

having been a former singapore citizen has no bearing upon how I speak. it is a matter of how you were brought up. if you had/have parents who are/were fishmongers and the like then you would speak that way.

and how one would spell something formally and informally is clearly different and I have nothing against using "u". "urs" and such when post online hence guv, guvment and such would make sense.

And if anyone thinks I am over reacting thats fine, I horse around with my friends all the time, but I dont know this loser from anywhere and how about taking a closer look at his posts he has nothing better to do than to troll and make pointless comments, my comments on the use of language is probably my first based totally upon my dislike for something that is purely personal Flounce around LOL oh boy...you sure have some imagination...

And I am done with subject

Good, because you come over as entirely tiresome, and how say ah? 'Up yourself' lor. Your reply? 'Oh my God, like rully, I hate this Singlish, it's like rully oh my God so peasant yah, wait til I txt my m8s yah about the lack of sophistication!'

Two things. 1) Based on your posting profile you appear very immature. 2) you seem to believe that having been to college in Canada you somehow think you are more Canadian that Grizzly Joe Adams up in his backwoods log cabin. AND that's despite you still holding a SG passport and living in SG. You couldn't make it up really.

Yes, please, do go away... 14 year schoolgirls are usually a complete pain in the arse... as you amply evidence.

[jdaniel]

It just goes to illustrate the point I made in another thread about an a**hole being an a**hole regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation. Although I'm loathe to admit it, even a Canadian can prove his/herself unfit for human interaction.

It's funny that he's so against Singlish and Singaporeans given he's a Singaporean citizen himself. That said, there is at least one thread I know of where it would be appropriate to voice views on this topic. This ain't that thread.

Also, in Canada, the appropriate contraction for 'government' is 'gov't'. But we're not in Canada, are we?

having been a former singapore citizen has no bearing upon how I speak. it is a matter of how you were brought up. if you had/have parents who are/were fishmongers and the like then you would speak that way.

and how one would spell something formally and informally is clearly different and I have nothing against using "u". "urs" and such when post online hence guv, guvment and such would make sense.

And if anyone thinks I am over reacting thats fine, I horse around with my friends all the time, but I dont know this loser from anywhere and how about taking a closer look at his posts he has nothing better to do than to troll and make pointless comments, my comments on the use of language is probably my first based totally upon my dislike for something that is purely personal Flounce around LOL oh boy...you sure have some imagination...

And I am done with subject

Good, because you come over as entirely tiresome, and how say ah? 'Up yourself' lor. Your reply? 'Oh my God, like rully, I hate this Singlish, it's like rully oh my God so peasant yah, wait til I txt my m8s yah about the lack of sophistication!'

Two things. 1) Based on your posting profile you appear very immature. 2) you seem to believe that having been to college in Canada you somehow think you are more Canadian that Grizzly Joe Adams up in his backwoods log cabin. AND that's despite you still holding a SG passport and living in SG. You couldn't make it up really.

Yes, please, do go away... 14 year schoolgirls are usually a complete pain in the arse... as you amply evidence.

Based on your responses, you appear to be a loser Your opinion that I am a loser is your own, you can have your 2cts, which is probably the actual value of your opinions because I probably make more than you doing balls and just being on holiday:

1. I am wondering what you are basing your comments on, that I think I am more "Canadian THAN (by the way) Grizzly Joe?" I am more Canadian than you because I am a Canadian Citizen and have spent almost 1/2 my life in Canada, and other 1/2 the US and Singapore.

2. I did not just go to college in Canada, I spent 1/2 my life there. but I guess its hard to gather that from trolling my old posts etc (yes I know you have not much else to do with your time)

3. Even if I was NOT Canadian and was NOT educated in Canada, I would still NOT be speaking Singlish because I never have. So I fail to see your logic and basis of claiming that I am trying to be something other than what I am. As I have mentioned before its a matter of education/upbringing and now that you mention it, breeding. Not everyone that happens to be Singaporean by birth is Tan Ah Kow whose father is a fish monger, or Chinese, Malay,Indian or whatever else you have here and be obligated to or automatically find themselves speaking singlish. You do understand, there ARE a few current/ex Singaporeans who have never in their lives been inclined in the least to speak in that mangled fashion.

4. And again it is quite sad for you to make silly lil comments about my citizenship based on fleeting comments on a message board. You can troll all you like, but you dont know me For your information, I no longer hold a Singapore passport nor do I actually live here permanently. Not that it is any of your business but for the sake of clarification I am here on an extended visit/holiday plus a bit of business and this is just my jumping off point.

5. Your attempt at English is admirable although lacking substance, I must assume you are a very very bitter Singapore Citizen probably of Chinese or Malay heritage if not then I am hoping you are not from a place where English is the main language because if that was the case, you are an even bigger loser than I first expected.

To remind all those following, I made a comment on use of language and I did NOT make any personal attack or refer to anything personal to begin with, however I love tit for tat so, I am not holding back

[JR8]

I love tit for tat so, I am not holding back

Your post history left me with the distinct impression that you prefer cock to tit.

[jdaniel]

I love tit for tat so, I am not holding back

Your post history left me with the distinct impression that you prefer cock to tit.

best you can do eh lol pathetic

[leona123]

Singlish is not a language

Going by the definition of language as provided in dictionaries, Singlish IS a language.

My point is keep the rubbish to the local forums so as not to pollute this board the one refuge we have from that nonsense.

Yeah, yeah, we get your point. You don’t like it, so we shouldn’t use it. You sure do exude tolerance.

I dislike interacting with people who speak singlish/chinglish, how is that racist?

That is definitely not racist, jdaniel. It is just like saying, "I dislike interacting with people who speak with a Canadian accent" (just an example).

I have to say though that as is common with Singaporean adults they are simply unable to participate in any kind of adult conversation, despite being into their 30's…Sadly I have had to pre-emptively de-Friend all but one of them from Facebook.

LOL. Your hasty generalization, as well as the hypocrisy in the above statement, definitely sounds very mature, JR8. Smart move in pre-emptively de-friending all but one friend from facebook rather than finding out first.
(I do not know the complete context which has driven you to make the above disparaging remarks about Singaporeans. I do apologise in advance if I have misunderstood.)


As for the main topic on homosexuality…thanks for the great links, Mad Scientist. I believe that the Singapore society is evolving to accept homosexuality. I hope that it won’t be long before they allow homosexuals to marry as well. In my opinion and from what I have seen so far, the only adverse reactions to homosexuality are from the people who strongly feel that their religious views should dictate how an individual lives his life.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I hope that it won’t be long before they allow homosexuals to marry as well. In my opinion and from what I have seen so far, the only adverse reactions to homosexuality are from the people who strongly feel that their religious views should dictate how an individual lives his life.

That ought to do a lot for Singapore's declining fertility rate don't you think? As has been said many, many times here and elsewhere, this is a pragmatic society (by their definition). Gay marriage is NOT pragmatic when looking at it from a purely future perspective.

[leona123]

That ought to do a lot for Singapore's declining fertility rate don't you think? As has been said many, many times here and elsewhere, this is a pragmatic society (by their definition). Gay marriage is NOT pragmatic when looking at it from a purely future perspective.

You've got a point there, sundaymorningstaple. In that case, we should ban all forms of contraceptives too .

[leona123]

To add to my above point, people who are found to be medically unable to give birth should also be denied marriage . Also, people like myself and my husband, who do not wish to ever have children, should also not be allowed to marry.


Think you get the point, sundaymorningstaple. It's very obvious that the reason you are against same sex marriage (apologies if I've got this wrong) is simply because you have some prejudices against them. You are not fooling anyone by saying that the reason homosexuals shouldn't marry is because they can't produce children.

[leona123]

To add further to my points above, I copied the following satire from a facebook group and adapted it slightly. It highlights how lame some of the reasons given against homosexuals(and their marriage) are.

10 Reasons Gay People Should Not Marry


01) Being gay is not natural. People always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract. (slippery slope fallacy)

04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in the country.

09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

[sundaymorningstaple]

To add to my above point, people who are found to be medically unable to give birth should also be denied marriage . Also, people like myself and my husband, who do not wish to ever have children, should also not be allowed to marry.


Think you get the point, sundaymorningstaple. It's very obvious that the reason you are against same sex marriage (apologies if I've got this wrong) is simply because you have some prejudices against them. You are not fooling anyone by saying that the reason homosexuals shouldn't marry is because they can't produce children.

You were doing okay until you presumed to know what I or anybody else here actually thinks. There are times to expound and times to keep ones mouth shut and just read. This was one of those times. I will, however, accept your apology. You would do well to understand that I am not a Singaporean. I didn't say whether I was against or for anything thing. I was just giving you a logical government pov on the subject. I even stated as such. You might want to go back and re-read posts (in fact the entire thread) for context before replying to them so you don't look so foolish with your accusations.

Why do YOU think the government is against gay marriages? I'd like to hear your view instead of you just dissing everybody else and copying stupid jokes from facebook and pasting them here.

And you last post? Silly. But, after reading the rest of your posts in this thread, no more than I've come to expect.

[leona123]

You were doing okay until you presumed to know what I or anybody else here actually thinks.

I clearly remember making an apology IN CASE I am wrong which you even 'CLAIMED' to have accepted. And you STILL have NOT pointed out what you ACTUALLY think if I was wrong about what you think.

And you STILL have NOT answered if contraceptives, infertile couples and even couples who don't wish to get married should be denied marriage since the basis of your argument is that gay marriages don't help with the "declining fertility rate" in Singapore.

There are times to expound and times to keep ones mouth shut and just read. This was one of those times.

Whoa! Take a chill pill. Lol. No need to get angry. You would do better if you had attacked the argument than the person (or at least both, however, you attacked only the person).
Why should I keep my mouth shut (or rather, my fingers shut)? Simply because you said so? smiles.

You would do well to understand that I am not a Singaporean.

How is your nationality relevant to the topic at hand?

Why do YOU think the government is against gay marriages?

The government's views are OBVIOUS. To live and let live. There is NOTHING for me to THINK because the government is clear about its stance leaving no room for second guessing. Didn't YOU read the link provided by Mad Scientist as well as his post? Ironic that you should make a comment like,

You might want to go back and re-read posts (in fact the entire thread) for context before replying to them so you don't look so foolish with your accusations.

when you obviously seemed to have missed the issue which was staring straight at you in the face. The Singapore government ISN'T AGAINST gay marriage. LEE K Y has set the tone as CLEARLY highlighted by Mad Scientist. The reason why gay marriage is not legalised at the moment is because "legislation has to reflect both the societal norms and the views of the majority". I hope I don't have to spell out to you what this implies. Please do yourself a favour AND read again before getting angry and going into personal attacks.

instead of you just dissing everybody else and copying stupid jokes from facebook and pasting them here.

You might have done better if you had explained WHY the satire from facebook was stupid instead of simply saying it is stupid. You could have pulled out a few points to rebut. Merely saying that the whole article is stupid, doesn't make it so, sweetheart
Also, IN CASE you don't know, satire is a good way to bring a point across in an ironic manner(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire and http://www.encyclo.co.uk/define/satire).

And you last post? Silly. But, after reading the rest of your posts in this thread, no more than I've come to expect.

Well, you do contradict yourself. Thought you said that, "You were doing okay until you presumed to know..." and now, you claim that they(my posts) are all silly as you expected. Very obviously a reaction to your opinion being attacked in the previous post. And to think that someone here said that it was the Singaporeans who acted like teenagers. Pfff! Hey, no offence. Kidding alright. Anyways, still waiting for reasons as to WHY they are silly.

Sidenote: I've nothing against you. In fact, I thought that the point you(think it was you) brought up in one thread about foreigners in Singapore, was good. You ARE entitled to your opinion. However, if you express them out here, do expect to get some of your opinions criticised. Instead of merely saying that someone's idea is stupid, come up with good explanations on WHY you think they are stupid. And if you have a good reason as to why homosexuals should be denied their rights to marry their own, then, I would concede and stand by you. Note that double standards(will clarify if you don’t understand what I mean) IS NOT a good reason.

[leona123]

Amendment to my previous post.

I said..."And you STILL have NOT answered if contraceptives, infertile couples and even couples who don't wish to get married should be denied marriage since the basis of your argument is that gay marriages don't help with the "declining fertility rate" in Singapore. "

It should be..."And you STILL have NOT answered if contraceptives, infertile couples and even couples who don't wish to HAVE CHILDREN should be denied marriage since the basis of your argument is that gay marriages don't help with the "declining fertility rate" in Singapore. "