Re-apply PR for spouse 2nd time

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sat, 29 Dec 2012 10:21 am

May well be a reason you haven't heard anything about your application even though it's been 6 months now since your appeal. They now have learned the attitude your countrymen have, so they are thinning the numbers as they know you aren't in it for the long term. So, unless you are in a niche position where the trade-off is acceptable for the gahmen, probably your days are numbered. This means most in PMET positions may well be moving on in due course.

Wd40 · Post by **Wd40** » Sat, 29 Dec 2012 10:58 am

Yeah may be you are right. I don't have too much hopes either, anyways, I will update the outcome here.

But you know I got the PEP inspite of applying at the last moment and my friends told me that there were others who also applied for PEP after the new rules announcements and they got rejected inspire of fulfilling the requirements. So it's truly case to case basis.

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:22 pm

They could afford to give out the PEP's as it's only a two year visa in most cases of the last minute ones as few will be able to meet the income levels required at 31/12/2014. In fact, I think they are pretty smart as once you give up your EP for the PEP, the PEP is only good for 2 years unless you meet the income requirements and if you don't? Odds are, under the new criteria, you probably wont qualify or will be rejected when trying to get another EP. Easy-peasy way to thin the ranks.

vishalgupta2 · Post by **vishalgupta2** » Sat, 29 Dec 2012 1:39 pm

Unfortunately, I feel really stunned by this thought.

When you take PR of a country that is supposed to be a very well thought decision where you want to make that country your home. I used to think the phrase 'Permanent Resident' itself was quite obvious.

I wish someone was to tell my fellow countrymen from India that PR is not a store reward card, it's a commitment. Very much like the commitment people make when they marry. People don't move on to another partner when their partner gets ill, they help them and work together.

Wd40 wrote:If I do get PR, I will continue to work and stay here for the long term as long as it is profitable. It could be another 5 years, 10 years.. I dont know. May be I work here for the next 10 years then I would have made enough to retire. I cant really predict beyond that where am I going to be or what I am going to do.

Now if it is not profitable at some point of time say after 5 years salaries completely stagnate here while they keep going up in India, then may be I will move back or move to the next country that is more profitable.

I dont know, to me that is not abuse because I am contributing by being here paying taxes etc. Abuse would be if I just take the PR not because I need it but just to use it as a stepping stone to go to another country or just having the PR buy a HDB and rent it out and go and stay in India etc.

The PR itself is a 5 year deal and just like we need to provide proof of 3 years of tax statements for REP renewal to show we are worth it, so in the same spirit of give and take I would expect the country to show proof that its worth for me staying here.

I know for a long term PR like you that sounds like abuse. But, my reasoning for PR is that it allows you to buy a HDB and mitigate the crazy rents here. If there was a way to get away from paying crazy rents without taking up PR, I am sure lots of people would have opted for it.

Unfortunately that is the only way. Its either take PR and stay for the medium- long term or you are looking at moving out anytime from here. I think the ICA is completely aware of this as most Indians think exactly the way I think. So if we do get PR, then I assume I am not abusing it. If I dont get, well, its not the end of the world for me.

ututu · Post by **ututu** » Sat, 29 Dec 2012 4:10 pm

vishalgupta2 wrote:Unfortunately, I feel really stunned by this thought.

When you take PR of a country that is supposed to be a very well thought decision where you want to make that country your home. I used to think the phrase 'Permanent Resident' itself was quite obvious.

I wish someone was to tell my fellow countrymen from India that PR is not a store reward card, it's a commitment. Very much like the commitment people make when they marry. People don't move on to another partner when their partner gets ill, they help them and work together.

If we go with marriage analogies, SG government reminds a gold digger, there are very few people who relish the prospect marrying one. Some of course have no choice. So I'd treat this PR/relationship as "friend with benefits". As far as I know something "Permanent" doesn't need periodical "Renewal" based on monetary factors, just because Singapore government calls that status PR doesn't it make so.

zzm9980 · Post by **zzm9980** » Sat, 29 Dec 2012 4:46 pm

"What does 'Permanent Resident' mean?"

That's actually an interesting question. Does it really mean someone who will be here permanently? (Isn't that what a citizen is?) Or is it just a visa for a transient who intends to stay here for a "while" based on wanting to be part of Singapore, and not solely employment? I went to ica.gov.sg to see what their definition is. You'd think it would be the first paragraph of whatever their main "PR" page is. Well, there is absolutely nothing. I looked at some of the application forms online in PDF, also nothing. I can see good arguments for both viewpoints in this thread (the pragmatic and idealistic). I'd be curious if someone more familiar with Singapore law could site a source with the actual definition. Or is this also kept intentionally vague to suit the current whim of the populace?

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sat, 29 Dec 2012 8:43 pm

The definition of Permanent Resident is "one who decides to stay IN SINGAPORE PERMANENTLY. The commonly used definition is applicable here as well. Permanent Resident never has to be renewed. It is exactly what it says.

Now, for the naysayers before they start........

Should you DESIRE TO TRAVEL ABROAD......

You need a re-entry permit. Leaving the country without a re-entry permit is tantamount to declaring to the Government that you are voluntarily giving up your Permanent Residency.

You see, if you never leave Singapore, you DO NOT NEED a Re-entry Permit and you are free to stay here as long as you desire, e.g., permanently, hence you have been given Permanent Residence.

You want to leave, you need a re-entry permit. Simple really. Even if your re-entry permit is only renewed for one year and then they don't renew it, you are still welcome to stay here as long as you want. But you cannot leave the country without it as that will be a declaration that you are voluntarily giving up your PR (yeah, they are forcing the issue, but it is you who is leaving voluntarily, so you don't have a leg to stand on.

ututu · Post by **ututu** » Sun, 30 Dec 2012 7:58 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The definition of Permanent Resident is "one who decides to stay IN SINGAPORE PERMANENTLY. The commonly used definition is applicable here as well. Permanent Resident never has to be renewed. It is exactly what it says.

You want to leave, you need a re-entry permit. Simple really. Even if your re-entry permit is only renewed for one year and then they don't renew it, you are still welcome to stay here as long as you want. But you cannot leave the country without it as that will be a declaration that you are voluntarily giving up your PR (yeah, they are forcing the issue, but it is you who is leaving voluntarily, so you don't have a leg to stand on.

Yep, like a gold digging b..tch, you run out to to corner grocery store and find your locks changed. Before demanding commitment, she should take a hard look at herself.

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Sun, 30 Dec 2012 8:11 am

Actually PR is all or most countries has a 5 years tenure. Whether they call it REP or RRV , residence permit, green card or whatever, it still holds one to a certain period of time for commitment to be eligible to renew
Hence commitment to be a PERMANENT RESIDENCE is critical to be eligble for the renewal of one's REP
Collection of PR's will only last for as long as it has valid REP once you abuse it , that's it
Even like myself holders of 3 nationalities ; has to follow guidelines to satisfy individual countries in order to stay overseas.
Nothing is as easy as before

Wd40 · Post by **Wd40** » Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:48 am

Lets look at couple of things. Why do people emigrate out of a country? Every person has their own reason, varies from person to person and country to country.

Now when a person takes up permanent residency in a country why is he still holding citizenship of the previous country? If you are really serious about the meaning of the word permanent then the person shouldn't be holding the passport of his original country.

The very fact that a person holds passport of another country means that is a fallback option. People who stay here for the long term on PR and don't convert to citizenship are abusers too since they leave this this fallback option open.

Only difference between whom SMS calls abusers and himself are the tolerance levels. While he himself may be ok to remain jobless here or earn little, for short durations, others may not be ready for it. Partly due to cultural differences. For some their whole identity is about how much they earn and how much they save and they just cannot take any risk on this aspect. Westerns though are very cool about going on sabbatical leave travelling the world etc. while in between jobs. Indians are much more conservative or risk averse at that.

For most Indians being in between jobs is not acceptable at all and neither are they used to it. It's a culture thing.

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sun, 30 Dec 2012 11:14 am

Then maybe you should keep your culture at home. 'nuff said.

ecureilx · Post by **ecureilx** » Mon, 31 Dec 2012 9:46 am

Wd40 wrote: No I really mean it. You may be interested in reading more about popular medical tourism destinations. Here's one article I found:

http://internationalliving.com/2010/06/ ... tinations/

I am flummoxed now .. so you believe an internet article as the source of your claim that Singapore doctors are not good in handling maternity cases but are good in multi-organ failure cases ??

never mind ...

zzm9980 · Post by **zzm9980** » Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:32 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The definition of Permanent Resident is "one who decides to stay IN SINGAPORE PERMANENTLY. The commonly used definition is applicable here as well. Permanent Resident never has to be renewed. It is exactly what it says.

Now, for the naysayers before they start........

Should you DESIRE TO TRAVEL ABROAD......

You need a re-entry permit. Leaving the country without a re-entry permit is tantamount to declaring to the Government that you are voluntarily giving up your Permanent Residency.

You see, if you never leave Singapore, you DO NOT NEED a Re-entry Permit and you are free to stay here as long as you desire, e.g., permanently, hence you have been given Permanent Residence.

You want to leave, you need a re-entry permit. Simple really. Even if your re-entry permit is only renewed for one year and then they don't renew it, you are still welcome to stay here as long as you want. But you cannot leave the country without it as that will be a declaration that you are voluntarily giving up your PR (yeah, they are forcing the issue, but it is you who is leaving voluntarily, so you don't have a leg to stand on.

Right, but does the gahmen ever actually post that somewhere? I know it's meant to be more than a temporary stepping stone (to anything other than SC), but the ease with which the gahmen lets PR give it up and get their CPF refund, etc, makes me think even the gahmen doesn't hold the definition as strictly as some on this forum.

Wd40 · Post by **Wd40** » Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:39 am

zzm9980 wrote:..., but the ease with which the gahmen lets PR give it up and get their CPF refund, etc, makes me think even the gahmen doesn't hold the definition as strictly as some on this forum.

This has exactly been my line of thinking but Mr SMS always dodges this question

taxico · Post by **taxico** » Mon, 31 Dec 2012 2:55 pm

sunday isn't the govt...

...or is he...?

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Re-apply PR for spouse 2nd time

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