Frustration Over PR Rejection

[PNGMK]

Australia is a good choice but it's expensive COL against salary levels.

You've made a good point about going home too. The high % growth in VN will continue for decades.

[keisuke]

sms did mention whether being North or South Vietnamese carries some weight.

There has to be continuous improvement between each PR application. If you’re still in same job and same pay between applications, then same data in = same result out.

And do you stay HDB or condo which tends to be an expat enclave?

Have a plan B just in case. You’re not the only one on the forum who has been in SG for a long time but still can’t get PR.

Hi, can you please clarify on the point of HDB vs condo? We're waiting for our PR application status and at the end of our current condo (expat enclave) rental contract. Do you think it's worth moving to a HDB flat?

[malcontent]

sms did mention whether being North or South Vietnamese carries some weight.

There has to be continuous improvement between each PR application. If you’re still in same job and same pay between applications, then same data in = same result out.

And do you stay HDB or condo which tends to be an expat enclave?

Have a plan B just in case. You’re not the only one on the forum who has been in SG for a long time but still can’t get PR.

Hi, can you please clarify on the point of HDB vs condo? We're waiting for our PR application status and at the end of our current condo (expat enclave) rental contract. Do you think it's worth moving to a HDB flat?

Obtaining PR is the first step toward eventual HDB ownership (currently a 3 year wait for new PRs).

For some folks, HDB is all that they can afford, especially after the 20% salary deduction for CPF. And, since CPF is pretty much locked up except when used to buy a home, it creates a strong compulsion to buy rather than rent. This is how Singapore has achieved such a high rate of home ownership.

Whether it is worth it or not depends on your individual circumstances. If you can afford to buy a condo, that is generally preferred, and you can still use your CPF to service the loan. If you don’t need CPF for housing, you can do what we did and shove everything into your retirement account to earn higher interest.

[keisuke]

sms did mention whether being North or South Vietnamese carries some weight.

There has to be continuous improvement between each PR application. If you’re still in same job and same pay between applications, then same data in = same result out.

And do you stay HDB or condo which tends to be an expat enclave?

Have a plan B just in case. You’re not the only one on the forum who has been in SG for a long time but still can’t get PR.

Hi, can you please clarify on the point of HDB vs condo? We're waiting for our PR application status and at the end of our current condo (expat enclave) rental contract. Do you think it's worth moving to a HDB flat?

Obtaining PR is the first step toward eventual HDB ownership (currently a 3 year wait for new PRs).

For some folks, HDB is all that they can afford, especially after the 20% salary deduction for CPF. And, since CPF is pretty much locked up except when used to buy a home, it creates a strong compulsion to buy rather than rent. This is how Singapore has achieved such a high rate of home ownership.

Whether it is worth it or not depends on your individual circumstances. If you can afford to buy a condo, that is generally preferred, and you can still use your CPF to service the loan. If you don’t need CPF for housing, you can do what we did and shove everything into your retirement account to earn higher interest.

Thanks for the reply, but I want to clarify my question. I wonder if renting/staying in HDB gives high chance of getting PR application approved? For example, they will think that we have been well integrated with the local or something (I don't agree though).

[raptor_from_vietnam]

Whether you rent a condo or rent an HDB as an expat does not matter at all. The only lifestyle choice that matters during the application process, from what I have read, is whether you send your kids to International School or public school. Tbh, "integration" might not be high on their priority list for all you know. So many Malaysian Chinese go PR half a year after landed here, while many "Others" and Indian expats fail PR repeatedly after years of sinking roots here.

[smoulder]

Whether you rent a condo or rent an HDB as an expat does not matter at all. The only lifestyle choice that matters during the application process, from what I have read, is whether you send your kids to International School or public school. Tbh, "integration" might not be high on their priority list for all you know. So many Malaysian Chinese go PR half a year after landed here, while many "Others" and Indian expats fail PR repeatedly after years of sinking roots here.

No one knows for sure of course. But living in an HDB vs an expat enclave condo may signal your ability to integrate or not.

Additionally, in an HDB you could save yourself some money, so it's worth it in my opinion.

Lastly, about Malaysian Chinese - yes we all know of MCs who practically walk in to Singapore and get their PR approved. It's because they are already culturally nearly the same - hence the same yardstick of length of time in the country doesn't apply.

[malcontent]

Thanks for the reply, but I want to clarify my question. I wonder if renting/staying in HDB gives high chance of getting PR application approved? For example, they will think that we have been well integrated with the local or something (I don't agree though).

I might be the first on this board to say this… but it might even hurt your chances. Due to the housing situation here, demand for HDB units exceeds supply. I believe one of the reasons for stemming the flow of new PRs is to ease that constraint. And, by living in an HDB, you are seen as needing government assistance (despite it being debatable whether any real assistance is being rendered). I believe that this was part of their calculus when my daughter’s PR was rejected, because it would open a family nucleus with her PR mom. They also wanted to see what property we owned when we appealed. Of course this is all conjecture, but that is all we have to go on in many cases.

[MOCHS]

Hi, can you please clarify on the point of HDB vs condo? We're waiting for our PR application status and at the end of our current condo (expat enclave) rental contract. Do you think it's worth moving to a HDB flat?

Integration is one of the factors ICA looks at. What they really look at, we don’t really know but we can make an educated guess like current housing, the schools your children go, eat at hawker centre or restaurant, etc.

SMS has also said before that an undercover ICA agent can be following you for a few days to see what you do too.

I still think staying in HDB does mean integration though since majority of the population stay in them.

But if you’re not used to staying in a HDB setting, why be miserable for a PR application that may not be guaranteed? I know one forum member who eschews HDBs, stays in very well known expat area, and has PR. It’s their personal choice. You also can’t fake integration if you really don’t like hawker centres or HDBs in the first place.

ICA looks at other factors too. And the more you try to game the system, ICA can also see what you’re trying to do.

I know a PRC PhD holder, got rejected for PR twice in the 4 years she was here. She had the misconception because she volunteered as a first aider with Red Cross and was sent to NDP and the airport for her volunteering stint, she thought it’ll earn her massive points.

But she failed to realise her being single and past child-bearing age are also one of the reasons why she got rejected. She kept hanging onto Red Cross and I think ICA could see she was trying too hard to game the system with volunteering.

At least she’s happier in Canada now and her Canadian PR application is still processing…

And don’t bother benchmarking yourself against Malaysian Chinese. We know it’s an open secret they have a different set of criteria.

[raptor_from_vietnam]

Your PRC PhD friend is yet another case of frustrated PR seeker moving to Canada. I have seen many in my circle moving to Canada coz they cannot settle down here without a PR. Many of whom are in their prime age, and highly skilled in what they do. But I guess they can be replaced by the new waves of PMETs coming to shore, hoping to start a new life here. Maybe this is what Singapore wants. People come here to spend their most productive years, got detered by the opaque PR process and leave before the healthcare system has to take care of them when they are older.

[keisuke]

Hi, can you please clarify on the point of HDB vs condo? We're waiting for our PR application status and at the end of our current condo (expat enclave) rental contract. Do you think it's worth moving to a HDB flat?

Integration is one of the factors ICA looks at. What they really look at, we don’t really know but we can make an educated guess like current housing, the schools your children go, eat at hawker centre or restaurant, etc.

SMS has also said before that an undercover ICA agent can be following you for a few days to see what you do too.

I still think staying in HDB does mean integration though since majority of the population stay in them.

But if you’re not used to staying in a HDB setting, why be miserable for a PR application that may not be guaranteed? I know one forum member who eschews HDBs, stays in very well known expat area, and has PR. It’s their personal choice. You also can’t fake integration if you really don’t like hawker centres or HDBs in the first place.

ICA looks at other factors too. And the more you try to game the system, ICA can also see what you’re trying to do.

I know a PRC PhD holder, got rejected for PR twice in the 4 years she was here. She had the misconception because she volunteered as a first aider with Red Cross and was sent to NDP and the airport for her volunteering stint, she thought it’ll earn her massive points.

But she failed to realise her being single and past child-bearing age are also one of the reasons why she got rejected. She kept hanging onto Red Cross and I think ICA could see she was trying too hard to game the system with volunteering.

At least she’s happier in Canada now and her Canadian PR application is still processing…

And don’t bother benchmarking yourself against Malaysian Chinese. We know it’s an open secret they have a different set of criteria.

Thank you, I really appreciate your reply. We've been living in this expat neighbourhood since our first day in SG, we have friends and know almost every single hawker nearby. It's not worth moving just for the sack of an uncertain PR application.
I agree with you that there are a lot of people trying to gain more point by doing volunteering work, including me. However, I believe that volunteering and contributing to the country and the society should always be a positive point. It's undeniable that we have made this country a better place through our hard work, time and sweet.

[MOCHS]

Your PRC PhD friend is yet another case of frustrated PR seeker moving to Canada. I have seen many in my circle moving to Canada coz they cannot settle down here without a PR. Many of whom are in their prime age, and highly skilled in what they do. But I guess they can be replaced by the new waves of PMETs coming to shore, hoping to start a new life here. Maybe this is what Singapore wants. People come here to spend their most productive years, got detered by the opaque PR process and leave before the healthcare system has to take care of them when they are older.

She was only here for a grand total of 4 years. First application after a year of being here, second application around year 2-3 with no change in pay. Hardly enough time to truly integrate, IMO.

SG is not the place for fast track PR unless you have ultra rare niche skills the country needs which the current population doesn’t have.

[smoulder]

The only fast track PRs... Or near there.... Are for MCs. My wife for instance got a PR after applying for it a year after moving here. But that's because they fit right in. Most people including Singaporeans and Malaysians will struggle to tell them apart.

[bro75]

My recommendation is just to keep applying while preparing a plan B.

I know a few Filipinos who got their PRs after applying several times in this stricter era. It is not impossible but as long as your profile improves, there is always a chance.

[mrdl]

My wife and I just received a rejection letter this morning for our PR application. We are both Vietnamese, having been in SG for 15 years since secondary school. After graduating from NUS here on SG government scholarship, I have been working in Pharma and she in Oil& Gas, with combined income of 17k a month. Sure we are not high earners, but not too shabby either. We are both professionals with very specific skill sets in our fields. This is the 3rd rejection letter we have received over the past 5 years. Now that we are expecting a baby next year, the PR is even more important because we want our daughter to be born into some certainty in life. My friends and family kept saying had it been another country, like Australia and Canada, we would have already gotten in with our qualifications. I know so many Malaysian Chinese who earn way less, been in Singapore for way way shorter time, who got the PR so easily on their first try. Now I feel like an idiot for harboring hopes of getting the PR.

Salary is definitely the problem here, feel like 17k is a bit low for a vietnamese household to get PR

[the observer]

https://www.newsweek.com/justin-trudeau ... cy-1988094

Game changer