Expat Advice on Local School Options

[Jordya]

Hi- It seems that everyone my wife speaks to is steering us heavily from looking at Primary 1 local school. I am intrigued by the idea and would like to open up some dialogue with expat parents (USA preferably) who have actually done this and are not simply giving sterotype answers (too strict, no creativity, etc) Much of what I have read on the forum speaks to a fairly positive experience and we are in Singapore for two years only. Thank you for your help.

[taxico]

i'm american, but not a parent.

i moved between int'l and local schools when i was studying in singapore (for both pri and secondary levels).

my first contact with the local system was in primary 2, and i remembered i enjoyed it for the most part.

i settled into the local system eventually (i got put into an int'l school again after primary education) and liked it better than the alternative.

scholastically, local schools rule and the system prepared me well to cope with university and life in general.

some local schools also do well in "non-academic areas", and the creativity part may be less of a problem these days.

in retrospect, strict is good. i had too much freedom in International Schools and was always up to no good.

this shouldn't be a problem at lower primary levels. since you're in singapore for only 2 years, i recommend giving the singapore education system a chance.

i guarantee it wouldn't have any permanent adverse effects on your child.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Do a search of the Schooling & Parenting Forum here using boffenl & my nick on the subject (we are both Americans). I put both of my kids (currently 20 & 25) through the local system from kindergarten through O levels and tertiary educations. I am very happy with the results "generally" speaking and if I had to do it over again, I would go the same route again. (schooling wise) boffinl currently has her daughter in a local school and is ecstatic over the results she is getting and the facilities in general and apparently her child is thriving.

Of course there are those that swear by the international route (and I will agree to an extent). For those here for a couple of years or having kids who are already in secondary schools in their home countries, this is the best route as they would find themselves outclassed (academically) in classes of their age peers.

There are those who still "think" that the local systems are purely rote learning (they're not) and lack breadth of courses (they do not lack) and are afraid that their kids will grow up speaking "singlish" (they will). However they will speak it only to the extent that the parents don't get involved with their kids education as well) Mine speak fluent "singlish" as well as fluent English (albeit not the queen's English but the American version and easily switch between the two, depending on who they are talking to. Both of my children are also fluent in Mandarin (but neither I nor my wife are Chinese). This will serve them well, should they stay here and will be a definite leg up if they return to the US in 3 or 4 years when I retire.

sms

[movingtospore]

Hey Sundaymorningstaple, from what I've read here it seems quite difficult to get your kids into local schools as an expat. Did you just start calling up recommended schools until you found one with a place?

I too am open to the idea of going to local schools. But I wonder about this.

[taxico]

Hey Sundaymorningstaple, from what I've read here it seems quite difficult to get your kids into local schools as an expat. Did you just start calling up recommended schools until you found one with a place?

I too am open to the idea of going to local schools. But I wonder about this.

i think it's only difficult to get into "good/established" primary schools.

[gobama08]

Hi:

I have my boy at a local school. He just finished his P2 examinations. If you are not familiar with the Singapore school system you should note that P2 is the year they begin seperating the children by ability (i.e. exam results).

The focus on the end of year results was pretty intense and my boy had to really knuckle down and word hard the last term. I don't use tutors in English and Math but we do three (3) hours a week of intensive one-on-one Mandarin. Our daily routine includes about 45 minutes of solid work on English/Math combined with the three (3) hours a week of Mandarin Instruction. 6.5 hours per week of homework a week at the 2nd grade level is not something I remember doing when I was a kid!

In the end my boy did "ok" in English and Math but failed his Chinese exam. I have been observing him pretty closely to see how his self esteem is holding up after being relegated to one of the lower end classes for P3. I can't say he feels great about it but I'm pretty sure he isn't traumatized by the experience.

My suggestions...

1) Pick a local school with a vibrant extra-curricular program.
2) Be ready to be intimately familiar with the Singapore curriculum. Class sizes are 30+, I think the curriculum is pretty challenging and interesting, not "rote" learning. The pace is fast. unless your kids are naturally (un-naturally) quiet and studious types expect to do a significant portion of the actual teaching at home.
3) The tremendous "pressure" everyone talks about regarding the local system is real. In my experience however, this pressure comes from the parents not neccesarily the school. Your kid will be in class with kids that spend 5 to ten hours a week in specialized tuition centres.

If your ready to get involved in your kid's day to day schoolwork and you are prepared to support their self-esteem if they are not at the top of thier class I say "go for it".

[boffenl]

Holy crap gobama08--sounds like you're Singaporean now! My daughter does about 30 minutes of P2 homework (on a rough day)--but it's usually coloring that they didn't get to in class! She was "promoted" to the top class given she scored in band 1 for English and Band 2 for Math (she was furious at herself by the way sicne Math is her "thing"). She also failed her Mandarin exam--but since neither her father or I speak it it's just good she's getting some exposure. Also, FYI expat parents can opt/petition for their children's mother tongue langauge not be used in their PSLE ranking.

As for the question about local versus international: please, please go visit a local school before you get caught into the international venue. I visited three schools and fell in love with each of them. Turns out only one had an opening during phase 3 balloting--and we've never looked back. She loves her school, the teachers and fellow students. Yes, her Singlish is exemplary! But she doesn't speak it at home.

Give a call to the schools in your area, go visit and really listen to what they tell you. Check out the library--how many volumes, how often the kids visit. See the science labs (the science labs at my daugther's primary school rival the ones at my home university!) and speak with a teacher if you can.

As I've said before, the Principal took me around at all three schools, during my visit to three International Schools I was shuttled around by an admissions councelor--dime a dozen. Plus--local schools are the BEST bargain in SG--$14.50 a month! I just bought all my daughters books and school supplies plus uniforms for less than $200. That's a deal no matter how you slice it!

[farawayfromhome]

We moved here from Texas and are in Singapore for two years also. Our daughter attends the local primary school and has had a very positive experience. She received a waiver for the mother tongue requirement but attends mandarin classes out of personal interest. I would highly recommend visiting the school of choice often as they take your level of interest into account when considering enrollment. I had no problems getting my daughter into a great school that is very close to my condo. Financially, you can't beat the local schools and we are putting the difference between the International School tuition and the $14 we pay per month for local schools into our daughters college fund. I also wholeheartedly believe that for my daughter to move to a different country, learn a different language, and succeed in local schools will benefit her for the rest of her life. For us, part of the reason we came here was to give our children experiences they would not have back home. Many expat parents do look down on local schools but I have nothing but praise and appreciation for the education my daughter has received.

[Nath21]

I find this whole topic really interesting as I will be sending my child to school here eventually.

The class sizes 30+ seem a little excessive and early exam streaming worry me, also the fact that it seems to be rigid discipline rather than putting the onus on yourself to be self disciplined. As mentioned by taxico different kids respond to different methods. Early on I favour discipline but later I wholeheartedly believe you need to be self disciplined to achieve and any schooling that cradels you from start to finish dosent help you in the long run.

The homework issue and hard work seems exactly the same to what I experienced in my childhood. I did an hour and a half homework every day at an early stage and always seemed to have a project on top of that and I attended local primary and secondary private school in Australia.

My question is if your child is streamed to lower or middle classes what is the difference in education? Different subjects? different resources and abilities of teachers?

[mum in singapore]

Hi,
Would especially like to here from 'farwayfrom home' because we from America too..

My husband and I have just started debating (once again) if the local system is better for our kids...i cant imagine spending 20k per year for kids in kindergarten..
So.. am very curious to see what options we have for our kids...obviously they willl find it hard to make a switch from a cosmopolitan International School to a local school

so am here for the same reason as most of you are...
My question is "Which local schools should I look into?"

We live around the River Valley area and am quite interested in understanding which schools around here are good...

We all know the names of the good International Schools.. but am at loss trying to find good local schools apart from ACS and Raffles, and Nanyang..

SO can someopne PHHHLEASE get back to me...
Faraway from home please reply back.. as i cant pm you because I need to have posted a few times before i can use the PM option
thanks a ton!!!

[local lad]

Hi ,

There is a local school around your area. I think its River Valley Primary at Martin Close. I wonder does the under 1km rule applies to you.

[mum in singapore]

thanks for your reply local lad...

just wondering about the 1km rule.. i know it exists but i also know friends of friends of friends whose kids go to school beyond the 1km... how does that work?
am trying to find this answer but haven't found one yet..can anyone help?
thanks

[boffenl]

The school curricula are the same island wide--amazing to think one school is better than another when they use the same curricula, and teachers all come from the same graduate/UG training programs at NTU. Most schools use the same books too.

Class size does increase as the kids get older. 18-20 in P1, 25-30 in P2 and 35-38 in P3. It hasn't been an issue since it seems they do have an extra teaching assistant now, so really it's the smallest class size she's ever had in local school.

Mandarin is a issue no matter how you slice it--private tutoring, tears, extra effort, or exemptions. I have not gotten her an exemption yet--but will be meeting with the new Principal soon to have that discussion.

Good luck everyone on making this difficult decision. As I've mentioned before you MUST go visit the schools (preferably when they're in session) to meet the staff and see how the kids get along. That is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WHEN CONSIDERING A LOCAL SCHOOL!

[mum in singapore]

Thanks Boffeni for your pm.. i cant reply to that as i have not posted enuf....

had visited the MOE website..will look at it again with your tip..

lad... went to River valley primary school... OMG what an experience!!!! they refused to let me talk to the priincipal... eevn after telling them that i am willing to make an appt for later...

finally i argued and told them if they were so closed minded about meeting the principlal then how would it be after i enroll the kids to school..how would i have access to teachers etc etc...so closed minded..finally they let me meet the VP and he was quite confused why i wanted to see him..he said that he couldnt allow a tour of the school...finally i persisted and he said i should try the front desk and ask them if they are free...what???!!!!!!!

very wierd experince... almost hinting that we get kids without all this drama of tours and meeting the Principal we dont need you...
am quite put off...

[movingtospore]

That's pretty funny. I had the same experience with Bukit Timah primary, they basically told me to @#$# off. However, I called another primary school (not in our area though), the one that boffenl's child is at. They were very friendly and have called me back twice and are going to set up a time to come in.

I think it depends on the school...if they are used to having non-standard kids enroll in non-standard ways they are happy to speak with you. But if they aren't and you are stepping out of the "the rules" of how and when to speak with school staff and principals they won't even talk to you.

We were thinking of switching to local schools as the fees are so out of line with what's actually delivered at the International Schools. But I'm very much on the fence. I have lots of concerns about local schools as well.

You might want to look into some of the semi-private local schools...the methodist ones, if you're not opposed to a religious environment.