Stamford American School vs UWCSEA, advice please!

[Maria Vergara]

Hello,
We are moving to Singapore next summer and we have started with school searching. There are lots of choices but we have found two we like more, Stamford American International School and UWCSEA
Anyone who can tell me about them? Someone who's kids are attending one of them? I have read good and not so good reviews from both but would really appreciate some updated information about personal experience. We like the education system both offer and think the facilities are really good, but would like to know if they are good schools and kids are happy going there. Our sons have 11 and 9 years old and a baby girl of 2 years. For her I have also seen that are multiple choices so it should be easier.
Thanks!

[PNGMK]

Neither. Both are for profit. Perhaps UWC is marginally better. Location is an issue too.

(Not for profit is my preferred choice. SAS/ICS and some others are in this category for American curriculum).

[American]

Neither. Both are for profit. Perhaps UWC is marginally better. Location is an issue too.
(Not for profit is my preferred choice. SAS/ICS and some others are in this category for American curriculum).

UWC is a NON-PROFIT school.
ICS is not a true NON-PROFIT school. The associated church looks to make a profit to fund missionary programs.

The traditional 'top 3' trust or non-profit schools in Singapore are:
- SAS
- UWC
- Tanglin Trust

These 3 schools are comparable academically, it depends what curriculum you want to follow. SAS for American (AP) system, UWC for IB, Tanglin for UK...

Please check your facts before posting these comments.

[PNGMK]

Neither. Both are for profit. Perhaps UWC is marginally better. Location is an issue too.
(Not for profit is my preferred choice. SAS/ICS and some others are in this category for American curriculum).

UWC is a NON-PROFIT school.
ICS is not a true NON-PROFIT school. The associated church looks to make a profit to fund missionary programs.

The traditional 'top 3' trust or non-profit schools in Singapore are:
- SAS
- UWC
- Tanglin Trust

These 3 schools are comparable academically, it depends what curriculum you want to follow. SAS for American (AP) system, UWC for IB, Tanglin for UK...

Please check your facts before posting these comments.

Thanks for the input; can you cite something that shows UWC is 'not for profit'' - I've always understood UWC to be a board school that endevoured to return a profit to a HQ somewhere. (And yes; you're correct that ICS uses part of the funds for subsidisation of education of missionary kids but the school is still fundamentally not a for profit school as it doesn't attempt to return a profit to the owners/founders).

[ginger_bread]

Thanks for the input; can you cite something that shows UWC is 'not for profit'' - I've always understood UWC to be a board school that endevoured to return a profit to a HQ somewhere. (And yes; you're correct that ICS uses part of the funds for subsidisation of education of missionary kids but the school is still fundamentally not a for profit school as it doesn't attempt to return a profit to the owners/founders).

http://uwc-my.org/UWCNew/?page_id=16
"The United World Colleges movement is a non-profit group of 14 International Schools located all around the world. It is dedicated to promoting international understanding through education. The President of the UWC movement is Queen Noor of Jordan."

Also it mentions that some UWC's only accept students on fully sponsored scholarships. So at least these UWC's are not for profit schools. I know this is not the case for UWC in Singapore, so maybe you are right in saying that UWCSEA generates a profit that is sent to the UWC movement to fund the scholarships and indirectly other colleges. But I would consider this a similar case to the ICS case.

[PNGMK]

Thanks for the citation. To be honest I think I'd have to see the accounts of both ICS and UWCS and their parent companies/holders to determine where they really put their funds. However a decent litmus test is to talk to teachers and see what excuses they give for not resourcing or whether they engage in IP theft like the Canadian School (i.e. photocopying or scanning text books). So far I've not seen that at ICS.

[American]

I think the important thing is to consider the mission of the school you are applying for. From my observation and experiences with visiting multiple International Schools here, beyond the above schools (UWC, Tanglin, SAS, ICS), and a few other country or country-association sponsored schools, most of them are openly for-profit businesses, meaning they seek to earn a maximum profit for their shareholders with no other stated purpose or 'broader' not for profit mission. I would not say that this is a determining factor on the quality of education, however I am biased to think that those schools with a not for profit mission statement are somehow 'better' (although they tend to be very costly).

[Maria Vergara]

Thanks for your answers and share your opinions.

[PNGMK]

I think the important thing is to consider the mission of the school you are applying for. From my observation and experiences with visiting multiple International Schools here, beyond the above schools (UWC, Tanglin, SAS, ICS), and a few other country or country-association sponsored schools, most of them are openly for-profit businesses, meaning they seek to earn a maximum profit for their shareholders with no other stated purpose or 'broader' not for profit mission. I would not say that this is a determining factor on the quality of education, however I am biased to think that those schools with a not for profit mission statement are somehow 'better' (although they tend to be very costly).

I like that clarification although I would add that ICS is less expensive than some of the 'for-profit' schools.

[PNGMK]

I think the important thing is to consider the mission of the school you are applying for. From my observation and experiences with visiting multiple International Schools here, beyond the above schools (UWC, Tanglin, SAS, ICS), and a few other country or country-association sponsored schools, most of them are openly for-profit businesses, meaning they seek to earn a maximum profit for their shareholders with no other stated purpose or 'broader' not for profit mission. I would not say that this is a determining factor on the quality of education, however I am biased to think that those schools with a not for profit mission statement are somehow 'better' (although they tend to be very costly).

I like that clarification although I would add that ICS is less expensive than some of the 'for-profit' schools.

[expat6874]

We have attended SAIS for over 1 year and like the school. We're american and felt we needed a an American/British cm. Overall the school has been good. But, it does feel a bit like an institution vs. a school that caters to the overall needs of your child. We certainly miss the smaller private school we're used to back in the states.

[CWYSLL]

I won't go into detail what happen . I just advise for those who consider to go to SAIS please don't . Don't attract by the environment or the facility. The management is very bad. If you need help from the school they told you is school policy or no reply. If they screw up they just so defensive and tried their best to push it away.
Just one incident happen recently they lost my 5 years old daughter after CCA for 45 min. No one knew where she is. After this incident we wrote to them they just so defensive tried to push the responsible away by giving all the excuse.
We are pulling out my kids to another school soon. We had been in International School for 15 years this is the school gave us the most headache and stress. My kids are not happen there. The school only care for recruits new students and make more money.

I don't think UWC is non-profit school . I can sure SAS is Non -profit school. This 2 school are good school.

[PNGMK]

That's absolutely appalling and you are right to raise it. I would write a "Private and Confidential" letter to the board of owners "Cognita" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognita

[PNGMK]

http://www.cognitaschools.com/

[Sensei Michael]

I think the important thing is to consider the mission of the school you are applying for. From my observation and experiences with visiting multiple International Schools here, beyond the above schools (UWC, Tanglin, SAS, ICS), and a few other country or country-association sponsored schools, most of them are openly for-profit businesses, meaning they seek to earn a maximum profit for their shareholders with no other stated purpose or 'broader' not for profit mission. I would not say that this is a determining factor on the quality of education, however I am biased to think that those schools with a not for profit mission statement are somehow 'better' (although they tend to be very costly).

All businesses exist to make a profit. Even non-profit enterprises have to make a profit. The difference is in what happens to the profits. In a non-profit organisation, there are no shareholders to return the profit to. All money has to be cycled into the organisation. In a traditional for-profit organisation, shareholders are entitled to a share of the profits.

Trust schools (and many "national schools" like the Japanese and German schools) do not have shareholders for profits to be given out to. UWC comes under that. However, a school's non-profit status has nothing to do with its quality (or lack of). It just means that money that could have gone out to shareholders are now ploughed back to the school instead...perhaps in the form of higher management or teacher salaries.